Read this: Telegraph sale saga continues, Ofcom takes on BBC, election washup

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Welcome to media podcast think of us as your very own Media club on the show today the Telegraph loses another perspective fire as Lord Rothermere Daily Mail group out of the auction at 1-year in are we any closer to the Future of the newspaper group also on the programme Ofcom strikes back at the BBC over there radio expansion plans he gives up his reaction you are the other winners of this year's election we discuss the BBC vs.

Channel 4 Alex great time from use and podcasting in the media quiz with polishing TV types of the media podcast in the news this week has been stuck between programme makers and the BBC have tried buddy audio, UK announce new terms of trade for the audio sex at the agreement increases the funding producers receive.

Direction and opens up more opportunities to exploit their IP in foreign markets UK cheap Patrick Holland has called on broadcasters to publish the money spent in each genre, they can I speaking to a broadcasting press Guild on Tuesday he said the Indies deserve to know what money was on the table if they were going to run their business effectively across the country have been shocked by the three women killed on Wednesday or the theme of the Close family of BBC commentator John Hunt Hunt is a horse racing commentator.

Whose were 5 live for many years.

I thought with him and his family at this buried in time and son called Trevor Kavanagh has announced his retirement after over 40 years on the paper during that time he was their first creditor breaking stories in to the Hutton enquiry as well as an outspoken and actually caught up in the phone hacking scandal.

He told the press this week.

I am the same age as doddery American President Joe Biden It's Time both of us left the building about well with me, London

Studio showing no signs of slowing down that we working back the Guardians media news editor Jim Waterson hello.

Hello, so you've been on election Duty recently.

How was that well at you? I was being the Guardians Media to for a while.

I came back from parental leave and wanted to new challenge and so we've been not I've been on the election team and it was supposed to be long running for the autumn covering the build up to a general election in the moment.

I was back in the door Rishi Sunak all the election but apart from my own my own.

Thanks over the time.

You'll be actually I really enjoyed it was 6 weeks of trying to work out.

What people are saying weather is influencing them.

How people actually can see him in the media and I'll be honest it was it was exhilarating and shop at the same time.

We had Marianna spring on the show last week.

Who is covering some of the things that I thought it was so you've written about we sort of said it was less than the Ferrers

Expected but more worrying from real humans.

I actually came away from it thinking that the most interesting thing with people were getting information that they wanted and being able to Seasons based on that that wasn't a wild amount of this information and the fact that may be people with consuming less mainstream.

You strangely they seem to know about the stuff.

They can now there's a bit of hope that I'm not sure it's really hope if you work in the journalism industry in some of the people.

I talk to some of the things we picked up on while doing bits of research for a quite worrying in terms of people consuming absolutely nothing recognisable as mainstream use but that didn't mean that they were actually not able to exercise their Civic Duty and vote in a way that was fairly well informed does the things for a sore to learn in terms of you know if you want to make your journalism relevant to the audiences nowadays brilliant research.

Buy a company called revealing reality for as well.

We just went and recorded the screens of a load of people at Mariana 21 approach where they should have came up with artificial yes, and this one was a bit a bit more.

Can we just look Over Your Shoulder for a few days and see what's actually on your screen and that was more deserving somewhere because you saw the complete chaos.

It wasn't if we try and do this in the scientist.

It was let's just at random to some people and you had a person who haven't even heard that there was a conflict in Palestine until 6 months ago who then entirely their feed was about Gaza and ever-changing a vote on that basis.

You had a teenager who basically only new Nigel Farage as a meme on cameo comments a terrible way to consume these people had things that matter to them and they were just whether it's through things been forwarded on WhatsApp or finding things on tiktok or even god forbid a few of them consuming B&B

Use another mainstream outlets, they were finding out about stuff.

They just often would tuning out the noise around it maybe isn't the worst outcome even if some of those you know make a living in the UK senior head of strategy Karen Robinson hello hello, how have you been following buy them gates are too well and because I had to had spent on it four times radio the morning after which meant waking up at about 6 a.m.

To watch 90 minutes of what was friendly some of the worst television I have ever seen so that wasn't a boring.

I wish I could have back but here we are so you have a Politics of Democrat in the UK all the things I'm reading splits is a huge amount as a president in his first term is he going to make it through next week if you're going to be there no money.

As a representative democratic party in any way shape or form.

I think the the summary of her Democrats in general are feeling about by otherwise you say there is a split into how that's coming out as we generally like his performance as a president and we're generally very concerned about performance as candidate and I think what you're seeing a lot of the time is people people who are focused on his successful performance as president wanting to lean into that but also perhaps coming from a place of veg that idea that changing candidate is going to be a chaos 3 easy ride into the into the into the White House seems a little naive and then on the other hand you have the fact that he has anyone who is I think mentally still quite fair, but physically very frail who has always had a stammer and a difficulty kind of getting words out which is only getting worse as he ages.

And the bottom line is he's not going to magically get younger between now and November in a week's time.

Will the New York Times has really sort of got a lot of a lot of feedback about how they reacted to him compared say talking about Donald is it just the messenger gets gets nailed the American liberal obsession with the New York Times and what it covers.

It's basically the same as over here with the BBC in certain functions except the BBC seems to get it from also.

Yeah.

I think it's Frank right wing conspiracy theory to point out that this guy seems a bit older than they used to this happens has suddenly become a sort of statement of serious journalistic.

Do you know investigation in the world?

Turn on the Emma Tucker a British edit her went there a few months earlier and got a lot of flat for it and I will post it notes and that was because everyone in the same way but but but you know they went there on biden's age and his ability to do the job a few months ago and got a lot of push back, then.

I'm interested to see over here in the UK what happens to one of the news outlets and the sort of influences.

He sprang up over brexit and opposing the Tories what they do now labels in power source of an audience that was all about get the Tories out.

Get the Tories out and have a splinter is going to be interesting because you know when politics becomes fandom things happen the American idiot.

The American media is fundamentally reading against Joe Biden but I think they are a it's a better way more interesting story because it's covered the country for years now.

And although I think the general public is not aware of some of the more recent things that he's been saying and doing the weather on the more extreme end of other push the media have covered it's so off everything is an interesting story.

Where is especially disarray and Democrats is something quite new we have been pretty unified azzopardi an hour sort of falling to Pieces let's be honest, so I don't play the New York Times or other media outlets from going this is an interesting story but fundamentally destroying breakdown to time exist dmgt which owns the Daily Mail has pulled out of the auction to buy the Telegraph group.

This is according to the times.

I mean astoria's Rumble on and on and on.

Why are the MG out-of-the-money what they say that the reason is this bill is this amendment to the Digital market competition at that was passed earlier this year which was done specifically to stop one.

The Telegraph back with foreign money which is now making every other company that wants to take it over realise that they're pretty stuffed if they want to take for money because often for money nowadays means golf money.

It means all of these states that so full of cash but one somewhere to spend at one of my influence and all these outlets for the thinking of bidding for the telegraph for realising we might get stuff.

We ever want to take even a few percent rushed that saver Norwegian public funds invested in with would be difficult to make a bit of any of these things absolutely and it wasn't it wasn't intended to stop slightly passive owner in Norwegian kroner, Norwegian that's well fun from their oil Money it was supposed to stop a very specific people exercising control and the interesting thing is that it's

Seems to be playing into the hands of Paul Marshall GB news major shareholder who would be looking to buy the Telegraph as he doesn't have the need for money from Estate he's back to us money in and other sources that will find out in due course.

That's his friends exactly but I mean the really good.

Do you think that makes me about that all of this is it to stop covers of newspapers on news magazines and newspapers that is basically it if it's a product printed.

It's a newspaper and if it's a news outlet with enormous reach but online only then it's not a newspaper and there's no rules on who can take investing it which is very funny sofa, Telegraph shut down its print edition tomorrow.

You could you can have the golf money back in with politics and this is about that.

Who they wanted I didn't want to to own that title.

Do you think part of the Daily Mail review is also they don't want to get into a tango with the label, but I think they're very explicitly said that in the statement that they think this government would be very happy to go through this very closely and they wouldn't be any sort of Nod and a wink that you'll be alright with us if you want to buy this may be in labour should have done is let the Far East or the Middle East by the Telegraph and just let them think what is the influence and you know that does the influence of right wing papers when the Conservatives are out of power.

Is it the same I mean 10 years I remember talking to people and down the street when I split-screen report an illegal you cannot emphasise enough how much if pull they can put something on the Daily Mail front page that will dominate the morning planning meeting at Downing Street

In terms of what we do for the rest of the day you know really does this sort of 24 million error and a decade on how long is that going to last but these outlet some of which have transferred online some of which have influence of MN but very few of which can claim to have truly mass readership there, how long until you know this government particular who has really 20 some of these outlets they can just go really care so much about you about the government's we have another culture secretary of the 1970 years at least and and he was appointed by a week ago.

So it's going to be found Evan are the coaches that she didn't win her seats at Soul II Soul and he has studied her place.

What do you know about her? She ran against Keir starmer for the leadership? She seems on the soft left of the party a former student journalist who decided it was for her instead and also the child of.

Turn the lights as well who grew up in a group in Manchester I'm not sure she's from Wigan or from Manchester but her mum work.

I think for what the paper saying you could probably if you were doing a portrait of her and medial and you do as she's a Grenada or Granada baby.

That's Italy Grenada in the 80s and 90s got swallowed up in 20 had its own distinctive identity that base on the river in Manchester that really produced sort of things that went no Nationwide turn left a lot of current affairs journalism that will influence some of her thinking in terms of onto his MP for Wigan she's talking mediately about inequality in the media and also regional inequality in the media and the need to support things across the country, but there's a there's a lot of frantic Google Wikipedia

Reading Reading the lines on her Wikipedia page.

I always love it when that when someone on expect to get spoilt of the job and you can tell that someone trying to be in the know is just regurgitate ing lines that I know that that's career section on Wikipedia given Wiggins Wiggins background Media questions of bananas of most most significant of which has been the Debate around BBC licence fees and ongoing funding of BBC there are still things to pick up around out for what is future is going to look like but I think there's probably quite quite a lot of other things as well and her gender that you need to get to as in when but I think what I find quite encouraging is that.

Using somebody who's coming in without having thought about this issue as you know she's already thought and written quite a bit about about the media.

I think we can all be very encouraging although she has a busy inbox coming into it with some knowledge and some appreciation for the nuances, so I'm looking forward to seeing what does the culture Media regulator Ofcom which has faced calls to show motifs and so Surprise this week to hear that it pours the launch of Radio 2 spin-off, won the bought a striking resemblance to boom radio.

Why was on the line to discuss that news is Phil Riley CEO of being radio.

Hello Phil how are you? I'm good thanks mate.

You're good to so what what have Ofcom waded into for people that have been following.

This is closes you have yes, we could spend an hour talking about the regulation of the BBC but I won't I'll try and condense it to a few cents is the online Lord the BBC have and they want to watch the new radio stations the dab.

Stations have to go through a fairly rigorous bit of scrutiny of the BBC kicking off and then off to pick it up and look at it the online launch.

However could be done far more easily by BBC they've got the power to do it without the same degree of scrutiny that the DAB launch has and they were trying to do that for all of these new stations that they said they wanted lots day said to put them online fairly quickly that's right and they they wanted to get the online version of the stations on are more quickly than the DAB stations can go on because they've got to go to this quite complex regulation process.

We have felt quite strongly right from the outset that the online launch of these patients could be as damaging for as in fact.

If not more damaging for us than the DAB launch.

Online is a very.

All the internet 55% of our listening is online and if more than that in terms of revenue revenue share that's being delivered by those online listing else is probably 60% very important for an online launch.

Didn't slip through the net and we argue quite strongly to Ofcom that this this particular online launch needed to be screwed as well as the DAB launch now the only way of doing that was to make the case that the online launch would have a material effect on fair competition that was the test at the BBC world going through internally and they saw handed their homework to Ofcom and said this is what we think we think this is ok, and we have managed to persuade off.

Please just anybody use a lot of people have been talking to Ofcom managed to persuade Ofcom the actually there would be there may be a risk that this online launch.

Have a damaging effect on fair and effective competition without that was the case we made and Ofcom seem to have accepted that and that's the the ruling that the maid and the odour Ofcom have here is they are allowed to step in if they think that there may be an effect on for an effective competition and say to the BBC you need to do a full public interest test for this in the way that you do one for the DAB station now.

It is not ideal but that's what that's where we are and what people were hopeful the they might interrupt this process Ofcom probably actually happened because of comedy instructor the BBC be more aggressive online.

Why do you think they have they have stepped? It? Is it just a good letter and had a good day.

Good morning.

I would hope that genuinely it because we made a compelling case and then and I think there is a compelling case to be made on this particular subject argue strongly that there really was a obvious risk that fair and effective competition would be damaged by the online lots of the service of course the BBC have been allowed to launch their Radio 1 additional service and their Radio 3 additional service so the case wasn't made for those two services and radiocentre argued against everything obviously that's what the job is the case wasn't strong enough for Ofcom to stepping on those services and they can now launch.

You know next week or next month if the BBC Tuesday lunchtime, so there must have been something specific about Radio 2 and it's effect on not justboom but gold as well and potentially Greatest Hits radio which suede the argument inside Ofcom

Favour of taking some action they can never really develop the service is everything really frozen in Aspic for them.

There is an argument but they reach audiences with quality radiator that is different and they're putting into some other areas in the modern world.

Can we can we leave them with the stations that they were they were to the date in 2003 to over 20 years ago.

Will you know I would go to have no sympathy with that statement whatsoever number of artist.

I think the the main one is of course the BBC should be encouraged to develop new Services if those services can be shown to be adding public value in excess of the effect.

They may have on fair and effective competition and that is in the public interest test it is the public value here.

The risk that is going to affect commercial competitors and on that basis at the BBC Sport to be allowed to do so if they can prove the there is a case for them.

I don't think that is the case here.

We've argue very strongly that it isn't the case here.

We hope to carry that day when we get round to arguing with we've already argued half the public interest test now.

Got to go to the same process again and we think there is a very strong case that actually not only do not only does this specific service have a damaging effect on fair and effective competition little to nothing in terms of adding to public value.

It is not doing anything that the commercial sector isn't already doing in the BBC is not there to directly compete with the commercial.

It is there to do different things it doesn't necessarily only have to deal with market failure, but it is there to do something different and that's part of the charter and that's really why the bar is set so high public.

They should be used a very very strong and very well to get this block to this level the things that interest me for is is whether these regulations even make sense all of these things are based around whether it's limited bandwidth on a or limited about the newspapers in existence and so you got this thing where as you say, what's the regulation is built around DAB streams and things like that.

Where is if I wanted to start an online only radio station tomorrow? I won't be regulated at all and yet the BBC if it tries to anything.

Will you no have the full Force of I'll come down on it and people like you arguing that their views in a position.

How how do you even Square this year in 10-years? I'll be just going to be in a free-for-all anyway the order with the gym is you could start an online radio station tomorrow and in order for it to be successful.

You need to get people to pay you directly for a virus subscription or you need to take some form.

Because he didn't do one of those two things you wouldn't be able to run it along the BBC can couldn't load capacity of the day after you launched.

Not running ads on it require it any extra subscription and put you out of business that can't be a situation that is allowed to be present in a free in free market economy that just can't be the case of a state backed operator at can intervene in the market in that way that's that's not to say the that's not a the current regulations on Dark they clearly are daft, but in this particular case the fact the BBC has to go through a hurdle a test.

Is it is a valid requirement how material is the risk to the business you took a pants on and fill up into a we could go out of business.

We could go out of business if the BBC launched the numbers of the BBC put out for Radio 4 Extra were significant.

I love you based on our own research and the similar research the radiator is actually the numbers at the BBC put it under play the potential audience size at this radio station could attract attract anything like the orders that they've suggested we could easily go out of business and that surely can't be right that a new fledgling service to appeal to a demographic the commercial radios never really appeal to before can be put at risk of going out of business because the BBC has decided it made a strategic error and it wants to fix it bounce the BBC own UKTV very successful TV channels like Dave and gold if my operation decided to launch and oldies radio station and cannot cope with their own money and Grandad's.

Would you have issues with that one?

I think that's much more interesting question 12, which I don't have a ready answer.

We've already seen Hughes competitions come away from Greatest Hits radio and they were already know when we launch, but they become a much bigger.

They are attracted and can they bought radio stations and fold them in today network that's it.

I love you.

That's fair and effective competition.

That's another commercial operator putting their money at risk to try and do something and we need to be able to respond to that could could there be through that that vehicle do the same I suppose I suppose they could and we would have to have to deal with that but we be dealing with something that's on a level playing field research.

The number one reason people would choose to listen to a Radio 2 extra service rather rather than as with the absence of advertising that something you just can't get round and that's how you

I think the BBC has at their disposal alongside of course the massive promotional potential of being able to promote this on Radio 2 ad nauseam, which of course is what they were going to do and what they may still do if they get get the final go ahead in 69 months time or whatever this eventually plays out well, it will be following out on the show us are my pleasure my pleasure my news after this.

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Is it a healthy bank balance or a healthy work-life balance.

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I came back Karen and Jimmy here for some more media news and return to US election coverage if you haven't got special behind the scenes at the BBC and times radio do check it out on your podcast video on YouTube that the BBC but Channel 4 coverage made a big impact of yourself for Channel 4 significantly up from the previous election which is great.

You know I like to see a diversity.

Are you in for ITV did pretty well.

I thought there was really good spread across the broadcast channels.

They were you know with my coverage watching I actually want it switching back and forth was normally I'm very loyal to the BBC interesting.

I think they had an interesting mix.

I think was it made.

So, I think you don't you, can you can always talk about what makes for informed television is good and she makes it up they mix it up very entertaining Lee answer some of the panels that she had to I personally wouldn't have necessarily picked her, but I think it paid paid off for them in terms of generating conflict in an interesting way perhaps.

How did you watch the election BBC on the big screen is the BBC winter now winter flower feed to be plenty other thing I had which was for other channels of a laptop and a flicking between us about five channels plus Twitter on in the background which meant as soon as I can see anything Bazaar happening GB news turn the volume on that one go back to Channel 4 for a bit next direction of all the channels on and basically the same way they interrupt to go to a constituency.

It was complete chaos and almost contributed to the Channel getting private eyes, so that was my nearest or trying to a comedy twist and this time they basically became podcast on TV system of the rest of politics newsagents well.

That's where I just put them on telly and the ones in the breakdown of the ratings but I seem it was weighted towards that couple of hours when the exit polls come in, but there's no results yet and the BBC's busy going around and it was trying to make a thing about who's going to be cleared.

Where's he could just switch on Channel 4 and watching the dino having it out with work for a couple of hours wanted that through the night but that did work for the first couple of hours.

Wrestling trick was Channel 4 just went live a bit earlier 100000 avenues and politics podcasts pre-match dominated the top of the charts.

Are they going to see a bit of a full now they've lost momentum of declining conservative party or has it I think both I think you have to expect there's going to be a fool just because the election gives urgency to listening to the news, but it was a steady increase in relationship to the news in politics podcast over the past couple of years and this means.

I'm really kind of compelling new entrance into marketplace over the past few years, so I would be surprised if it fell back completely.

I think some of those movies has will stick yeah, it's not going to be you can't have election bubble volumes of listening or around Masters who do a few politics podcast from Rhyl to scribers up to 5 and 10% across.

Successful for the Press news and politics page for yous doing very well according to the press Gazette I guess you expect that you would expect that I get the feeling that places were quite happy.

They were they were so standing still improving slightly on 2019 the extent to which the changes in in Google and Facebook of completely upended the market for clickable stories how the elections covered well.

I think it actually what's happened is a lot of that stuff is reaching people directly whereas previously you know I so I can BuzzFeed and stuff that 10 years ago.

I have written up as a post viral on Facebook the intermediary.

Just isn't necessary anymore the original clip is going to go around your friends WhatsApp groups the the original out of context hilarious screengrab is going to be all over your tiktok for you anyway, so I think what's happening is on the low.

Staff it's going viral anyway, but without the need for a new site in the middle, but then you'll see the impact of them in watching the page for use when Prince typically at the Guardian broke the story about the first story of what turned out to be many about gambling when a conservative MP has turned out to have been placing back to the election day to watch that graph to shoot people rushed and clearly sharing the link around an audience was coming in I am always reassured that good stuff.

That's interesting will still get red does it mean if you're talking about it and make sure your homepage is strong and politics in the election a lot to ride pages.

I mean were they doing a better job of creating as destinations and he will have keep that opening a tap.

I mean you know I'm one of the great things about working for Guardians we still have people who come direct me to us and actually amazingly few places have that when you really look at the stats the BBC

Easy way out in front in terms of raw numbers as Sky News mail Online a really there the quad you have that call audience and then you got the paywalled ones that have that loyal audience uoft Telegraph who intensely but not in terms of raw numbers by the highest amount and that that's that's a fascinating think there's a lot of the rest of the outlet so kind of have normally watch leadership, but don't really have a lot of loyalty that you are not really shaping some understanding of the news, they might just be picking up traffic from whatever driving at that moment in time and he saw this some of the research.

We did during the election was fascinating the amount of people relied on Apple news or Trust whatever was in it and they didn't even necessarily know which outlet it was from and put it on my phone it must be true.

Yeah, how's your social usage still big on Twitter or have you getting a load from kicked off Instagram or anywhere else?

Which I will never call x and you know it still resistant to tiktok but I'm on usually night.

I think that's not where the director of travel is but I think it's you know I think they're very impressed by little action is as you were leaving to adjust the quality of traditional journalism and the good work that was done.

I also think this turned out to be a very telegenic.

I enjoyed it enormously as as content for everything from a scenic standing out in the rain for no apparent reason to you know the the video of Divo of D-Day with him not to the quality journalism work that you say I did it was really interesting for me.

I was actually in in Calne for the creativity festival so not really paying attention to British news for the airport on the way back.

I was I was finding all the stuff about gambling and I was like what the hell has happened.

So yeah, it was entertaining.

Davy two sets of politicians largely created by television broadcasters for evening broadcast who got access because of those broadcast lots but the actual audience for it and the political political benefit is coming from it.

So seeping into people's feeds in a way that can't be monetized.

So you got this thing that the infrastructure that creates the moment is increasingly separated from word for seeing it but also pointed out that very well in the decision to have a Davy fall off of things like as background for them in the conversation whether the conversation they had said much about the policies needed me.

He was in the news every day the Telegraph newspaper vs of being an online platform.

If you are an established broadcaster, Media operator, you are inexplicably wedded to your original medium.

Where is your audience is probably moved on right is that merger between caramel and sky dance while it's back on a Sunday salt per month board approval murder.

Which is valued at 8 billion dollars have been left behind in the streaming Wars does Sky dance off of them anything new or you? Just some new people to have another girl.

I mean hopefully so you know obviously it's a big brother.

It's a big change.

It's come back of a news because I remember the days but watching paramount TV in the States and they were the home of Star Trek follow mine early heart is gonna have it but now they will bring to the equation.

I think my hesitation is know about the quality of either of these two Media Enterprises I think there's a lot of potential them in them but just entering.

Re-entering the streaming Wars at this moment in time when there's already so much in French so many in French players kind of people to choose from and where you know even the Netflix is struggling to acquire new viewers.

I'm slightly sceptical about how much Orient is still available to them but which could contain all things are possible a roll up to have to merge with someone else combine with a bigger entity do something different Hollywood outside my flat plate the tiny little British Media role of stories read someone's paid so 10 million for someone but when you look at this, I think it was once that really struck me which was that the movie studio paramount that made something like 300 million last year, where is you know the TV operations were in the billions and that's the sort of strange things that you've got.

You've got the brand one you know paramount figures on you so much more than the many mid-sized European the answers on a segment by segment places sometimes.

I feel look at the numbers can blind you just putting a finger to the wind and seeing which way things are blowing because you can just tell that friends since their streaming product isn't working you.

Could you know you can look at it? It's just clearly not going to be big enough to survive in the long term and so that Leeds U21 inevitable conclusion well.

We will see this week.

We're playing Polish the term lesbian a number of new commissions announced this week, which sound absolutely awful.

I'll give you the best possible bits from the press release you tell me what the reality is that your name to know the answer so I will say Karen and Jim also Jim let's play Polish that turn on this.

I just want to opt out.

The everyday story of Somerset folk is fun to film but maybe a bit more Fawlty Towers than Downton Abbey Karen yes, is that the Jacob rees-mogg reality show is the new flying the wall documentary from Discovery plus meet the rees-mogg's that sounded funny in the ideas meeting for that sort of interesting if he was all over the place while still trying to be a minister that sort of preparing up with somebody.

Preclude him from Public conversation from existence ok, what's this number to show City represents a unique opportunity for fans to immerse themselves in the world's of their face shows like never before yes, is that the gaming metaverse versions of I'm A Celebrity Get Me Out of Here and love Island yes, I see those are putting those into a reality TV virtual world called show City gym this like everything in about 2005 presents in the second second life alright mate.

I just get on with whatever it's like Every Generation will you be wearing your face helmet to immerse yourself in a virtual of Ireland

it's right number three a new TV ad at claiming that a better way for a waterways is already underway.

Who do you think you can which which company do the new TV ad climbing with a better way for a waterways is already underway.

Is it Thames Water it's the other one is it is Wessex Water the other one advert has been banned by the as a because it admitted key information about it's record on sewage pollution at Close deposited as we likely to get to this is the sort of we are talking about them.

Well.

Yes you won the quiz you can help Wessex water with a new creatives.

Come back to us with your ideas.

Thank you to both of us on the show today at gym people keep up with your good work.

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