Freesat reception - all about dishes

Satellite reception has both advantages and disadvantages compare with terrestrial (aerial) reception.
By using much higher frequencies (gigahertz, compared to terrestrial televisions megahertz) more transmission channels called transponders (the satellite equivalent of multiplexes) can be provided. For example, there are only six Freeview multiplexes, but Sky or Freesat users can access two hundred satellite transponders.
Aside from exceptional weather conditions (very heavy rain for example) digital satellite provides stable pictures and audio. Where Freeview transmitters are no more than 732 metres above sea level, the geostationary satellites used for television are 35,800,000 metres above the equator so reception is possible even where buildings, trees and hills make terrestrial reception impossible.
The downside of the transmitters being 22,300 miles up in the air is that the signals are very, very weak - so standard TV aerial is of little use. When the signals are sent to the satellites, huge dish transmitters are used to uplink the signal to the satellite. These are tens of metres from side to side, and feature an emitter that generates the signal, which is first bounced of a mirror (called a reflector) and then off the surface of the parabolic dish.
There are many satellites in the sky over the equator. Often these are in clusters over a particular position, for example there are four used for UK television are at 28.2 degrees east. There is another cluster over the 19.2 degrees east positions that are used for German television.
To receive these very weak signals from the satellite, it is necessary to use a dish for reception too. By using a reflective dish, this concentrates the signals onto a small device called a LNB. This is held in front of the dish by a metal arm.
The size of dish for reception is typically much smaller; often 60cm to 100cm in diameter, but the exact size depends upon the transmitting satellite transponder. To keep the transmission power levels down to levels that can be powered by the satellite's solar panels, each beam is focused on a particular area of the Earth's surface. If you are trying to receive the signal at the centre of this zone, a small dish is required. At the outer edges, you may need a 5 metre dish. Maps of these zones are provided by the satellite companies, and are called satellite footprints.
When the dish is installed it must be aligned carefully as the signal is very weak. The installer needs to know the inclination and the azimuth from the ground location to the satellite. If you install yourself you will find that there are markings on the dish that are used to point the dish in the correct position. It is important that the view of the satellite will not be blocked, so must take into account leaves growing on trees and potential building works.
For many people the LNB will have a single cable connected to it, however if you have Sky+ or a multi-room installation the LNB package will actually contain four receivers a quad-LNB. Unlike terrestrial television where you can split the aerial cable to feed more than one Freeview box or television set, with satelite reception you cannot. So, a Sky+ box with two receivers (so you can watch one thing and record another) has two cables connecting the box to the dish.
The cable that connects the dish to the receiver must be satellite grade cable. Whilst this looks superficially like the cable used to connect and aerial to a television, a higher grade cable is required for satellite reception.
Here is an image of a co-axial cable. This sort of cable is used to connect any type of receiving aerial to the reception equipment.
RG6, PF100 and PH100 are all types of coax cable that are suitable for the very weak signals that are received by a satellite dish. (The power is the same as you would receive from a one-bar electric heater on the moon).
The conductor in the centre passes the signals received from the dish to the set-top box. This is made from steel in RG6 cable, and from copper in the RF100 and PH100 types. This makes RG6 less suitable in the UK where rain can damage the cable.
The shielding is responsible for keeping unwanted external interference from damaging the signal. In the cheaper cable this will be a foil wrap, in better specified cables this is a braid (or mesh) of copper wires. The sheild in the RF100 covers 58% of the cable.
The non-conducting layer between the shield and the conductor is called the dielectric. This can be either a solid (RG6), foam (RF100) or air-spaced (PH100) dielectric. This makes the cables progressively more flexible (ie bendy without damage).
8:33 PM
Doug: What model of Sky box are you using?, the label indicating this info on either the rear or underside of the box.
As far as the problem alleged as being down to a weather related issue, this can only happen on a perfectly aligned dish during an extremely heavy thundery type rainstorm, or alternatively if not raining, when really dense rain clouds are passing over head.
A secondary reason linked to the above can be due to water having crept into the "F" connector on the dishes LNB, the result of sometimes only showing up once the weather has cleared up and the connector has been slightly warmed up by the sun.
Although not quite so commonly experienced, but another thing that can cause problems to satellite reception is if the dish is being partially obstructed by nearby vegetation, such as leaves on a branch of a tree etc.
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11:44 PM
MikeP: Yes, multiswitch distribution systems certainly offer the ultimate in flexibility, although as you will obviously appreciate what you are referring to is a cut down (not so large) version of a professional system as used for the distribution of satellite & terrestrial signals in premises ranging from guest houses to flats located in large apartment blocks, likewise costly to install over that of a quad (or octo) block, that is including the running of the coax feeds to the various locations that the satellite devices are being used in.
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10:52 PM
jb38
The distribution amplifier I was suggesting is designed for multi-room usage in homes and not just commercial premises. Many people I know use them as part of their home installation as it allows all TV, Satellite and radio signals to be made available in a number of rooms, depending on the model chosen. The advantage is you only need 1 dish, 1 TV aerial and perhaps 1 FM/DAB aerial, so not so unsightly as multiple fitments. The smaller ones from Labgear only cost in the region of £80, but as you say you have to add the cost of cabling. My fsamily have all done it in their homes already (we are all electronics engineers) and I plan to fit such in my new home (only been here 10 days so still unpacking boxes!).
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12:14 AM
MikeP: I fully appreciate that said about the advantages of using a multiswitch system, likewise do not in any way whatsoever have any issues with what you have said, as all I was really meaning is that the system being referred to "is" allied to the larger scale professional way of doing things, and as such cant really be said as being commonly used in the average domestic household, especially so with Stuarts query being in mind!, quad or octo blocks being the order of the day in situations where a few satellite PVRs are being used.
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8:56 PM
I live in Spain eighty miles south of Barcelona. Is it possible to get UK freeview using a satellite dish?
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Dorothy Morgan: Can you see Can I stop paying Sky and use my satellite receiver to get Freeview ? please?
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7:35 PM
Ron
By 'TV reception' do you mean Freeview? Or do you mean FreeSat? Or do you mean Sky TV? They are all different and should not be confused with each other.
Reception of the terrestrial services provided by FreeView requires a suitable aerial correctly mounted on the house and aimed at a ground-based transmitter (there are many and a Post Code would help us advise which may be the best for your location). So you cannot use a dish to receive those services. Obviously you need a suitably equipped TV set or a 'set top box' designed for Freeview reception.
Reception of FreeSat and/or Sky TV is only possible by using a dish suitably aimed at the required satellites and feeding the signals into a suitable receiver, designed either for FreeSat or Sky reception. Note that Sky normally requires a subscription if you want more than just the basic PSB services. Any TV set will be able to display the programmes received this way, but some modern TVs have an in-built tuner for the satellite signals, some being capable of HD as well as SD services. Sky reception is always by using a 'set top box' which they supply when you take out a subscription with them. Note also that an aerial will not enable reception of satellite provided services.
Hope that helps?
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6:33 PM
I have used Passion+ satboxes for some time. At some time in the past, my reception of BBC and CH4 HD channels has been less than good (ITV HD is ok). The picture is "jerky"; i.e. it tends to freeze for short periods, although the sound is reasonable.
Do you know why there could be a difference between ITV and the other HD channels?
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9:26 PM
Thank you Mike. As I quoted Passion+ satboxes, I thought you would have known that a I was referring to satellite channels. Why is there a difference between the 'reception' of ITV HD (good) and BBC and CH4 ("jerky")?
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1:06 AM
Eric I have a Passion+ (and an older Passion) and neither have ever received Channel4 HD - I thought it was a known weakness.
My BBC1 HD reception is OK but my 3Sat HD is also jerky (3Sat SD is fine). I seem to have lost ITV1 HD completely on the Passion+ at present. I always wondered if these old boxes struggled with better quality transmissions. There is a huge difference for example between 3Sat SD (good) and ITV4 SD (poor) so maybe the HD channels vary similarly with the better transmissions being too much for the Passions to cope with?
I do most of my satellite viewing/recording now on a Panasonic DMR-BST700 Bluray recorder and it is in a different league with excellent reception on all channels/satellites so maybe you should think of upgrading?
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4:45 PM
Eric - Mike's comment was before yours!BRIAN - could you make the dates in this nice new format more obvious than light grey print on light grey background?In reply to Eric; could be differences - esp if different satellites used. Hopefully someone up to date with the "gen" ** will comment.** prehistoric geek for "information"
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steve p: Hi. Yes, the dates should now be black again.
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7:34 PM
Response to Neil Bell:
You definitely need to update your Passion+. Start with a print of the data on website http://www.lyngsat.com/As…tml, which I will call your paper list. This gives you the details for each of the frequencies transmitted by Satellites Astra 2E, 2F and 2G which you will need to check for (and possibly add) in your Passion+.
On your remote control, press the 'Menu/Exit' button and scroll down to 'SAT/TP Edit' (press). Find 'Astra 2A
or 2F 28.2E and press the 'OK' button. You can select 'Edit' to change the name of the satellite if you wish, and then the 'return (curly arrow)' button.
Press the 'Right' button to highlight the data on the right of the screen. You will notice that the frequencies listed may or may not correspond to some of those on the paper list. In any case, it would be worth checking an entry, even if that frequency is listed on screen. So, press the red button for 'Edit Mode', select 'Edit'. You now have a window with the frequency, polarity (Hor or Ver), the sampling rate (S/R), the 'DVB Standard, 'Modulation', 'FEC' and 'Pilot' (this could be set to 'Auto'). Check your paper list of data and change the settings if necessary.
If you find that one of the frequencies on your paper list is not in the screen list, you will need to add it. Press the red button again and you will see the same window as before. Enter the required frequency, polarity, sampling rate, DVB Standard, Modulation (if you need to), FEC (the figure given or 'Auto') and Pilot (can be 'Auto'); press 'OK'.
When your happy that your screen list is up-to-date, press 'Return' and select 'Multisat Scan'; select your satellite (Astra 2E,2F,2G) by pressing 'OK'. Press 'Right' button and select 'Channel type' (say TV) and 'Scan type' (say Free). That done, press the red button to start the scan.
Unfortunately, this does not remove previously located channels (you can do this elsewhere); newly-found channels are just added to the end of the stored data.
Another thing to consider before you scan; the system information. This can be found by pressing 'Right' until you find 'Other Settings', then down to 'System Information', then 'OK'. The key here is the 'Software Date'. If the date is 10Sep2009, then BBC HD is okay, but there are annoying defects. For example, the 'User Setting' of the time, if set to 'off' does not stay as set, so the time "wanders" and recordings are not what they should be. On the other hand, if the 'Software Date' is later, the time setting is retained, but the BBC and CH4 HD channels are "jerky".
So, if you do not do any recording, you need the 2009 software. Changing that is warned-against in the manual, but I have the procedure and I have downloaded all versions of the software (just in case Fortec Star remove them from their website).
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8:15 PM
Supplement to 'Response To Neil Bell:
You will note from the Paper list (off the website) that some of the frequencies are used for SKY channels only. Stating the obvious; unless you want SKY channels, there is no need to enter these in the Passion+.
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1:05 AM
Eric It was nice of you to spend so much time suggesting how I update my Passion + but as I said before I now use a Panasonic DMR-BST700 Bluray recorder to watch/record German & Czech programmes so there isn't much point. I did do some scans of the various satellites on my Passion + about a month ago and found I could now receive Channel 4HD but I can get that on Freeview and I still have problems with 3Sat HD on the Passions so they don't get much use now. The one thing I can use my Passion for is to orientate my dish if it gets blown out of alignment. The Panasonic doesn't support the version of Diseqc which can control the motor but only the multi LNB version. However having had to invest in extra LNBs for the Panasonic I find it works better anyway and I was using the 4 quad LNBs for the Passion + as well. You don't have to wait for the motor to move the dish and you can record from different satellites at the same time. I had a look at the German Amazon site the other day and they are now doing a Panasonic DMR-BST940 bluray recorder with triple DVB-S tuners and a 2TB hard disk which is quite tempting!
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7:27 PM
Huge trees blocking sky dish. Please help what can I do to improve signal???
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7:40 PM
salma: Unfortunately not very much! that is apart from having the dish repositioned on another part of your property that possibly does have an unobstructed view of the S/S Eastern view of the skyline.
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12:59 AM
salma: Chop them down.
You may find it improves in autumn.
Is it a new dish or anew problem?
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5:53 PM
Second Response To Neil Bell
Thanks for your resonse on 23 July, which I have just seen. You mention 3Sat HD; is that something you can get with your motorised dish (not 28.2E setting)?
I also have a quad LNB, feeding 4 Passion+ boxes. I have previously avoided recording to built-in HDDs and move my USB drives about, as required. This has been important with the Passion+ because of the occasional sudden re-booting, which renders the drive unreadable. However, connecting the HDD to my computer and going through a 'play file/disconnect safely' procedure would render the drive readable on the Passion+ again.
I note your interest in Amazon (Germany). I don't want to teach granny to suck eggs, but I seem to remember that equipment sold on the continent MAY not do all that you want in the UK. Whether this applies to satellite transmissions as well as terestrial ones - probably not.
One last point: as my 'collection' of Passion+s diminishes with failures, I would like to know if you have come across any other sat boxes which have USB recording facilities?
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6:15 PM
Hi Brian,
There is something wrong: when I try to log on to your site, I get a warning about "security certificate" and a recommendation NOT to proceed, which I ignore.
This may put off more-timid souls!
What is the problem?
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1:44 AM
Eric I no longer use the motor on my dish to get the other satellites but 4 separate quad LNBs fixed to a bracket on my dish and cabled to diseqc switches. Both my Passions and my Panasonic boxes have DiSEqC 1.0 software which allows switching between the various satellite positions without moving the dish. The Panasonic box doesn't support Diseqc 1.2 which the Passions do support and which allows them to operate the motor. It was the absence of Diseqc 1.2 in the Panasonic firmware which forced me to invest in the bracket and the extra 3 LNBs but as I said in my last reply it is actually better in that you can record from different satellite positions at the same time which you couldn't with the motor. The motor with a single quad LNB can only point at one position at a time whereas using Diseqc switches means you have an LNB dedicated to each satellite position and the receivers switch between the LNBs electronically. 3Sat is a German language programme broadcast at 19.2 East. At the time I bought my Panasonic box I wanted to be able to burn Blu Rays and as far as I know Panasonic is the only company providing recorders with this function. Alas Panasonic UK had stopped marketing Satellite equipment by then so I had no choice but to buy it from Germany. It has a slight disadvantage in that its not a Freesat machine so doesn't support the Freesat EPG but only Now & Next on UK broadcasts. The EPG works fine on German and other language broadcasts and you can record UK programmes with the timer. Since buying the Panasonic I have invested in a couple of media servers and so if I want to archive a video now I just copy it to the media server. An advantage of it not being a Freesat box is that it does allow me to stream HD video. I have a very similar Panasonic Blu Ray Freeview recorder which only allows me to stream SD video so I suspect that a Freesat recorder would be similarly restricted. I don't have any experience of other satellite receivers which allow USB recording but there are several on the market. Until quite recently I would have advised use of a recorder with a built in hard drive like the Panasonic rather than an external USB drive as I have always found the Passion+ a bit flaky but both my Panasonic recorders have started playing up lately with HDMI blackouts followed by reboots which leave me with 2-3 minute gaps in my recordings. Not great when you are recording a Mozart symphony! I've never had my Passion+ render a drive unreadable although it frequently can't read the drive. I used to follow a tip I read once and plug the drive into my laptop and delete a recording I no longer require, reboot the Passion+ and plug in the USB drive again and it often seems to work again. I also used to record a few short clips to give me something to delete.
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6:09 PM
Neil, I'm puzzled by your explanations (thanks); if a dish is properly aligned to a given satellite, the LNB is held at the focal point of the dish. If your switching system changes to another LNB and moves it so that it is at the focal point, the dish will still be pointing at the original satellite. Does your system rely on good strong signals from the other satellites; strong enough to be picked up by a wrongly aligned dish?
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11:51 PM
Hi Eric My 1.2 metre dish is pointing at 23.5 degrees East where the Czech programmes reside (these being the weakest I watch). Clamped on the arm is a bracket which can take another 3 LNBs which are positioned individually to receive signals from satellites located to the left and the right of 23.5 degrees East. The size of the dish more than compensates for any discrepancy in the shape of the elipse as seen by the other LNBs and I get excellent signals on both UK broadcasts at 28.2 and German broadcasts at 19.2 and very good results on Hotbird at 13 degrees East. Its the position of the LNB relative to the satellite which is critical rather than how close it is to the focal point of the dish. Its not just at the focal point that you get a strong signal but on an arc either side of it. Neil
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7:33 AM
Neil et al:
When planning to install a satellite dish, there are certain regulations that need to be considered. In general a dish of up to 1m in any dimension does not need planning permission unless it is in a conservation area or the building is listed. A 1.2m dish definitely needs planning permission, see Planning Portal - Satellite,TV and Radio Antenna for full details of what is and is not permitted.
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9:00 AM
Mike P I have never looked at that web site before and on a quick look today I couldn't find any reference to the maximum size for satellite dishes. However when I had my 1.2 meter dish installed some years ago I did look at my local authorities (Redbridge) web site where it said that planning permission was not required for a satellite dish and additionally there was no mention of maximum size. I think it did mention listed buildings and conservation areas but as I live in neither I didn't concern myself further. I've had people visit from the planning dept. in connection with a neighbours planning application more recently and no comment was made and I've not had any complaints despite the dish being inline with the front of the house, on a big bracket with the motor and quite low down ( I can reach it with a tall step ladder) so its not been an issue for me.
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8:35 AM
Neil:
The site states "if you are installing a single antenna, it is not more than 100 centimetres in any linear dimension (not including any projecting feed element, reinforcing rim, mounting and brackets);". That is in the secrtion dealing with houses up to 15m high, which covers most 2 storey houses in the UK. It's the second bullet point. That requirement has been in force for many years, certainly since before the turn of the century.
I assume that because your enquiries with your local council at the time of installation led you to believe that permission was not needed, then it is possible that a different member of staff could interpret that as being in need of retrospective consent.
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7:51 AM
Mike P Your'e certainly correct. I was looking for the word "max" which of course isn't there. I also note on the Redbridge site that it links through to the Planning Portal now which I don't recall it doing in 2007 when I had the larger dish fitted. I'll just have to hope that nobody notices.
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6:28 PM
my satelite dish is 20 years old. At present the box is switching off and a minute or so later comes back on. We checked and found no loose wires.
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1:21 PM
Irene Cameron:
Sounds rather as if your box is playing up. Try turning it off completely, then removing the mains connection (either from the back of the box or from the mains wall socket - but be careful and ensure the socket is switched off if possible). Then wait at least two minutes to let the box turn off completely internally. Then plug the mains connection back in and turn the mains switch on the wall socket back on. Wait at least 5 minutes and then turn the box back on using the remote control.
That proceedure ensures that the whole of the electronics inside the box has been fully reset. Let us know if that resolves the problem, please?
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10:11 AM
Hi, I am new to freesat, I have an old Sky dish (about 15 years old) and got myself a Humax freesat box, tuned it in and its great most of the time, signal and quality strength is good, but sometimes I loose signal. Today the weather is fine just a very light breeze and this morning it was impossible to watch for about 2 hours but is perfect again now. it does this every now and again, not always in bad weather, do I need a new dish do you think?
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7:22 PM
Susan Wheatley:
No you do not need a new dish, but you may need to have the cables and LNB checked. The dish is merely a reflective curved surface to focus the signals from the satellites onto the LNB, the small block on the outer end of the arm at the front of the dish. The LNB receives the signals so reflected and converts them to be suitable for carrying via the downleads to feed into the receiver.
It is possible that the LNB may be developing a fault after so many years and it is also possible that the cable(s) have deteriorated over the years as they are so exposed to the weather.
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11:13 PM
MikeP: Thanks for that, can I check the LNB and cables myself (well not me my other half) or is it a job for an engineer?
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7:30 PM
Susan Wheatley:
If your 'other half' is skilled at electrical work and is happy climbing ladders to the roof and knows about the type of connectors used then he may be able to do it himself. Personally, if he can't say yes to all of those I would strongly recommend a good aerial/satellite installer be asked to do the work for you.
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1:45 AM
Susan I am SHOCKED by the gender stereotyping inherent in your assignation of such work to a male companion.
Looking for damage/dirt and wabbling connections or plugcycling are well within the capabilities of the gentler gender.
Obviously anything more advanced will need male skills though.
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7:35 PM
steve P:
If that is the way she wants to express herself than that is fine by me. I would say exactly the same if it were the other way round.
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5:01 PM
What is the difference between a zone one and two satelitte dish for my new freesat please . Thank you .
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5:08 PM
David Rowlands: They are different sizes. Which size you need will depend on how far north you are.
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5:49 PM
Thank you for your reply . I live in Ivybridge which is in the south hams in Devon . Can you please advise me what size of dish would be best please . Thank you ..
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6:55 PM
David Rowlands: A small dish (e.g. 40cm) would be fine anywhere near the south coast.
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3:56 PM
David Rowlands:
Further to that said by StevensOnln1, my experience suggests you would do better with a Zone 2 dish, a Zone 1 dish would be fine in good weather but may well suffer poor reception in heavy rain or snow, or even thick mist/fog.
Living in West Wiltshire, I use a Zone 2 (60cm) dish and never have any reception problems. A neighbour uses a Zone 1 and has problems when it rains heavily, snows (even lightly) or it is foggy/misty. He is shortly to have a Zone 2 fitted.
As StevensOnln says A zone 1 is fine along the south coast but only towards the eastern end. Because the satellites are some way towards the south east (over east Africa) the signals in the south east are good but get worse (weaker) the further west or north you go. A Zone 1 dish is fine if you are south east of a line between Colchester and Weymouth, north or weat of that a Zone 2 is better.
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6:20 PM
I am living in the City of London, and unfortunately I cannot install any dishes in my property.
Is there a way that I could watch Italian TV channels with a digital box?
Many thanks
V
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8:59 PM
Val:
It is highly unlikely that any Italian programmes are broadcast from any terrestrial transmitter in the UK and the Italian ones are far too far away to receive in the UK, plus there are several mountains in the way. It is also unlikely that any satellite transmission aimed at Italian viewers would be receiveable in the UK.
The one possibility for you to research is whether any of the channels you are interested in provide a streaming service on-line.
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9:06 AM
My Sky TV contract ends on 11 July 2019 and I cannot afford to renew it. I have a Sky Q box which they say I will need to return to them. If I buy a Freesat HD receiver/recorder/player will I need to find someone to adjust angle of my Sky dish for my Freesat box service to work plus will the cables from my Sky dish work with Freesat boxes? I have just had to retire early due to a terminal lung disease at age 61 so just want to enjoy some cheaper TV options but worried about possible stress and sorting out options and unknown costs etc. Thank you for helping.
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9:59 AM
Phil Ritson:
Your dish will not need to be realigned as it already aims at the correct satellites. However, you will need to have the LNB (the block at the far end of the arm sticking out from the dish) changed as a Sky Q LNB does not work in the same way as a 'traditional' satellite receiver LNB. A new LNB is not expensive but getting a competant installer to fit one will entail a charge. Talk to local satellite/aerial installers about having the LNB changed - it's a simple job and should only take a few minutes.
The existing cables will be fine as long as they are in good condition.
I wish you the very best of health and good luck.
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1:38 PM
Please can you tell me if there is a freesat box that records more than one programme while I watch a totally different one. I already have sky Q but it getting too expensive. I would like to get rid of monthly bills.
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2:28 PM
Clare Watts: I believe all the Freesat PVR models are capable of recording one channel whilst watching another (or recording two programmes at once). Certainly my Humax Freesat box does, although you'll probably find that the newer Freesat 4K boxes are the only ones now widely available.
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11:11 PM
Normally we have no problem watching and recording TV programmes via Freesat through our Humax box, but, unusually, over the past several days our TV screen has displayed, intermittently, the message "weak or no signal" and we lose the picture, only for it to return and then disappear again. For long periods there is no problem and then suddenly the picture pixillates, stutters and we see the "weak or no signal" message. If we change channels, some channels appear, unaffected, while others display the faulty signal message. Since the problem is intermittent, it seems to me that the equipment is not at fault; if it were, then presumably we would not receive any programmes at all. The reception problem first appeared when the recent prolonged period of bad weather began (high winds, heavy rain), but we have had similar conditions in previous years and we have not experienced the problem to the same degree. Are we alone or is this problem one that is currently being experienced by many others?
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11:51 PM
Geoffrey Williams:
I suspect that your Dish or LNB has probably been moved off the ideal alignment by high winds, or maybe the connections to the LNB or the coax cables have deteriorated by water ingress.
This will reduce the signal and then other weather disturbances will cause intermittent loss of signal.
Just because it hasn't happened before, doesn't mean it hasn't had an effect this time.
It'll be best if you check out these possibilities.
I've not seen reports elsewhere suggesting large scale problems.
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