Read this: Is this the end for TalkTV?

BBC sounds everyone is welcome to my podcast put your foot down and be brave lyrics celebrating to find out where in the World within the Living their best lives on music radio podcast hello my Ros Atkins this is the media show from BBC Radio 4 now struggle to avoid media coverage of Formula 1 this week.

Not just because the new Seasons begun because of allegations of inappropriate behaviour facing the head of Red Bull Christian Horner allegations that he denies will talk to BBC and talkSPORT F1 correspondence on the road.

Between the media and those inside the sport in a moment will talk Talk TV coming to an end as a TV channel less than 2-years after it's started and here in the studio is royal editor ITV news and because it was a huge interest at the moment in the health of both the King and of the Princess of Wales and it must be a strange story for you to cover because there's a limit to what you say.

There is a limit to what you can say and there is a difference as well between what we've been told by Buckingham Palace as what's wrong with the King he first had the prostate operation and then he had the cancer and what's wrong with Kate and the bottom line is we don't really know all the questions.

I get be that in my sort of personal life or professional life is what's wrong with? Where is she? Why haven't we seen her are they hiding her away and the bottom line is she had a major operation.

She went home to recover from it.

We were told that should be off until Easter and it's not yet Easter

She is currently doing the recuperation that we were told that she would do but it hasn't stopped lot of people speculating online and on social media about exactly what the problem is and there's someone who covered the royal family you get asked questions about the royal family all the time with people saying give me the inside track on this or that.

How do you compare the amount of Interest you're getting from people you bump into on the street or from friends or from colleagues interest you would normally see I think there's always a huge amount of interest in the royal family at the questions.

I used to get all the time about Harry and Meghan what's going on.

Why don't William and Harry talk to each other but by far away is the most frequent question at the moment by a country mile is why haven't we seen Kate where is she and as I say? I think people are entitled to a degree of privacy even when they're in the public.

Eye is the royal family are but I think it's been exacerbated by the fact that you know of the top 4 royals you think king queen William Kate

Currently off on some kind of medical leave and last week William pulled Admiral engagement suddenly and that was the third one going off without any explanation kind of I think that was the moment when things tipped over the edge because William disappeared suddenly without explanation at the 11th hour from that service in Windsor suddenly everyone was going I got there really has a problem here is what are they not telling us when we can talk about it further later in the program not least because a recent picture of Kate Middleton was published in the US but not in the UK and you're going to help us understand the reasons why there's a difference between what to see in the UK through the press and what we can see in the US the first of all we need to talk about what were two new arrivals in the TV News Arena GB news arrive in 2021 took TV in 2022 and now talk TV is no more as a channel in a briefing the staffs got to Taunton talk to the president of broadcasting said audiences of all ages of move fast.

Phone to know the primary device when users consumed we need to adapt to this as a priority was bringing Jade cancer investigations editor with deadline and check it doesn't feel like too long ago that we were talking about TVs launch here on the media show so what's happened since then afternoon really is a very rare is clear that since launching April 20-22 at the channel has sort of failed to gather momentum.

It's not really grown its audience and I think it's been overshadowed shadow B major pasta with his TV news and I think what I'm told lachlan Murdoch particular has lost patience and decided to pull the plug channel is not closing all together.

It is essentially moving online which is interesting in itself because that was actually the original vision that News UK had the talk to you then.

Going to be an online streaming service and they reacted to do in GB news launching on television and insiders an easy care now questioning the system about decision.

Do you think it was Mission Impossible that landing TV news network of this type in the current market was ever realistic.

I don't forget and the proof that is GB news.

I think what you've got into the news you like it or loathe.

It is a trailblazer blazer.

It has now gotten reach of over 3 million viewers.

It is directly into the audiences of Sky News and BBC News and it is time again.

It's a Now setting the agenda and making noise now.

You could argue that that might not always be for the right reasons, but it is certainly part of the conversation in a British Media landscape now.

Are we going to talk about GB news in the moment with you and with a guitar number from political but first of all Jake Piers Morgan was the headlines signing for talk.tv.

We already know his interviews are going online.

He's not doing a night showing him.

I would have this announcement due to that reportedly very expensive relationship between news international and News UK sorry and Piers Morgan well, I don't think very much at the moment.

I might - 1 is that deal was at least 3 years, so here's will be around for quite a while yet at at news.

Please call Ben News UK i.think.you what's interesting here is that talk to you? We took the decision to build a station around one individual and cv news different Direction had a greater diversity of presenters and I think that is actually probably come back to bite talk.tv people.

Just sort of saw it as the Piers Morgan channel.

And I think when he announced couple of weeks ago that he was moving to YouTube it was clear that the writing's on the wall Talk TV and it was only a matter of time before the rest of the station at Direction but you've already alluded to GB news a couple of times.

Let's talk about that network here in the studio is a bichon Westminster Insider podcast now you did a 60-minute focus on GB news.

You spoke to her as far as I can see almost everyone if not everyone, what did you learn about GB news that perhaps you didn't know I didn't realise before you started making that program question I mean it was it was genuinely fascinating because we went inside physically inside you been used a couple of times we spoke to as he said of all the key players including the CEO Angelo frangopoulos Farage Lee Anderson glorious pro-300 presenters from different parties.

I think one of the things that I found the most interesting was how they went from such a chaotic.

I'm sure we all remember angel chaotic.

It was they will kind of thought they would ever stories of them falling off air and those initial weeks and no one being able to tell whether or not they were on our to Simon McCoy he was presenting the time.

Just carrying on presenting and in the gallery basically saying you outside the gallery.

Sorry can we just work can we call a sibling and work out whether or not going off air get to that point to the point that check was just talking about where they genuinely have a lot of influence and not just across the country been political political circles as well, but as you know it's far from plain sailing not least this because we had another ruling by the media regulator Ofcom this one was about comments made by Laurence Fox on an addition of Dan wootton's evening programme those comments were found by Ofcom to be misogynistic and to a broken comes rules so Jake with that ruling.

What's the consequence for GB news?

Well, it's been called into the headmasters office they've been roped into a compliance meeting in which will be told that they need to improve their standards and will raise concerns about live elements of its output and whether it's responding to mistakes in a proper way and the argument here is a didn't Dan Wootton was supposed to apologise on there and for disputing reasons between GB news Dan Wootton that didn't happen Dan Wootton has now left the channel and you've gotta see this in the context of the broader regulation of TV news A12 live investigations ongoing the breach this week was the 7th in little more than a year and the regulatory activity is is pretty much unprecedented for UK broadcast to go back to other than 8.

And ofcom's work on ITV's abuse of premium rate phone lines to find any sort of equivalent and also saying it has significant concerns about GB news editorial control of its live output.

It's requested a meeting and you just deluded to this joke to discuss.

This is a quote and uses compliance practises and Adidas help me translate that when I come start talking about compliance practises.

What does that actually mean? I think they basically want to get GB news buses into a room and work out exactly what's going on what structures are in place GB news are now in a situation where they are getting most people in the news in more people Newsroom to have Ofcom training but it but it is interesting because they lose do they have had so 612 live investigations and it is kind of Extraordinary that this is still happening and looks like it might continue to happen and it feels like that sort of in slightly.

I suppose Uncharted 2.

You kind of alluded to this but in your conversations, did you get the impression people at the top of GB news care or whether Ofcom rulings even if they go against the network give them or coverage perhaps notoriety phone cases general public die and put them on the map or they actually worried about this having a demonstrable consequence of their network.

I mean it's a good question so we asked Angelo when we spoke and he kind of said when we think we've got it wrong then.

We are not that when we think of comes got it wrong.

We are up to that if you speak to people and I spoke to a lot of people off the record they say no Angela seems to think the Ofcom complaints a good for business that something he then he denied but but obviously they have a lot of people just no GB news for the scandal of their controversy and obviously GB news not trying to do a lot to damp and that down well if that's the editorial approach of GB news and ofcom's view of it Les Dawson talk about it as a business yesterday.

News posters of 42 million last growth is happening.

It's online audience also Andrew Neil that was involved in GB news at the start but not for very long tweeted and the last 20 has the Demise of talk to you as a TV channel shows even ideological folks has Richard Rupert Murdoch can't or won't stump up for huge losses in definitely something will have to give at GB news now.

You've been describing GB news impact as being the success counter to talk TV but what about Andrew Neil's assessment there of the finances that engineering might have an axe to grind with GPUs he left in Rotherham coronavirus circumstances a couple of years ago, but parking at to one side and it's clear to see and is becoming increasingly obvious for the finances that she been used as a rather expensive hobby for Paul Marshall who is a brexit backing hedge fund tycoon who runs.

You and radial argued that they were always forecast to make losses in the first couple of years but were planning to break even in year 3, I think that's unlikely given the finances and we don't know too much about Paul Marshall and his ambitions, but it's clear he wants to make a bit of an impact in in UK media and GB news is achieving that and I would say this it's not unusual for news channels to lose money Sky News is well known for being a lost lost making operation.

We don't know how much but it does not make money listening to a podcast on this matter and having covered GB news as well here on the middle show and certainly when we speak them on the record GB news says it's very much interested in creating a viable business model will have to see how that goes in the next few months and years just quickly both of you.

We've been looking at both of these organisations both of these channels.

Reveals not just about them, but also about the state of TV news more broadly in the country.

What do you think we've learned since the launch of talk to the and GB news Aggie about what the market is four different types of vision use obviously some of the audience has been taken from Sky News some of the audience of people that were watching TV news before 1 things we did the podcast this we went and just spoke to watch people watching TV news instead of Gogglebox style and these are people who Tory voters who used to listen.

Sorry service on Radio 4 Today programme and now they loved you been used and they watch it every single day and then make sure that they watch it and so obviously there is an audience for this and just on the influence.

You know GB news say the responsible for the Rwanda policy.

You know there's nothing the news from the Angelo says in Angelo said bye people to be the same Kingmaker in Sky News Australia used to work and be responsible.

He's got people on.

Australia dead become famous and then they become prime minister and sort of I wonder whether that's what he's saying to Tory MPs to try and get them on the channel so I think it's it's it's a fascinating thing that's going on other he has recruited that idea himself in that role has me in interviews that we've heard him reply to that idea just very quickly Jake what about you? What is Talk TV is experience GB news experience about the the broader state of TV news sites with UKTV rules and I think it will need to get this house in order, but I also think that morality in UK television news should be absolutely celebrated next to both of you appreciate you coming on that check cancer from deadline nagasandra from politico.

Still with me Chris ship from ITV News it's royal editor a man.

Who's made lots of television news over the years and and

Does Chris leading earlier to the fact that there is a picture of a recent picture of the Princess of Wales that was published in the US and which I assume all UK media would have had an option on all UK media with chose not to publish.

What are the reasons why what does an understanding this photograph was taken of the Princess of Wales if people haven't seen it.

She's the passenger in a car being driven by her mother.

She's wear sunglasses and it's quite easy to find online on social media if you really want to see it, but it hasn't appeared on any UK broadcaster ITV haven't done at the BBC haven't done it and no Sky News and as that they haven't seen in a single UK newspaper either the reasons for that and Kensington Palace as I understand it still trying to work out whether it was taken on public land or private land that he you have a public figure the Princess of Wales cages had Major surgery.

Is it off recuperating and a photograph has been taken without her permission with

Sorry to you have Kensington Palace and the picture was offered to other newspapers in this country to see if they wanted to buy it the answer was no we don't and then it was sold to see which is a entertainment website in the US and also that TV news channels like NBC News in America gym a good Morning America which is on ABC they used as they paid money for it.

So it is available in America they did show it.

We just didn't when you talk to American colleagues based here in London covering the royal family.

How do they do when they tell you that they're organisations are running the picture and yours and lots of other SIA on that surprised that the reasons why we are not running.

It is because it was taken without her permission.

She's entitled to a degree of privacy.

Just as if the prime minister Rishi Sunak was sat at the back of the restaurant with his family and a long lens managed to catch him ok as a public figure in the public place, but is he?

20 degree of privacy in a diner with his family that's nice to hear you have a princess out for a drive with her mother is on a very long period of medical recuperation and to answer your question American colleagues that I've spoken to hear with quite surprised that their channels stumped up the money for the photograph because it was going for being of several thousands pounds per organisation so where they took the photograph made a lot of money and there is the answer to your earlier question why don't we run it here well, if you buy paparazzi pictures you create a market for more Peppa pictures then more I taken and it's not long until you end up in the 1997 situation which Princess Diana was suffering from regularly the photo.

No, I don't but I think it's quite find out but I don't know and as you may have seen by coincidence in The Sun today is an interview with a woman who claims to have parties in Las Vegas with Prince Harry back in 2012 and those of you listening may recall that episode.

At the time the sun ended up printing a photo of Harry naked a photo that TMC it first published in the US at the time the sun claimed it was in the public interest to do so and this concept public-interest Chris presumably cut right to the decision-making process the Editors and making in newsrooms as to whether or not to publish a photo.

Yeah, you have is there a public interest for a sample think back to the picture of Prince Harry Nazi uniform they giving at the time I come and watch it was 2nd 3rd 4th in line to the throne at the time was there a public interest in telling the world that he part in the uniform which many people might find offensive.

I think most people would say yes, there is a public interest there.

Is there a public interest in seeing a picture of the Princess of Wales in a car being driven by her mother after she's had some quite Major surgery.

I think most people say no they might say no but there's still a market for a photo like this abroad so here in the UK is there a paparazzi operation that is simply functioning to feed.

Appetite for photos outside the UK then they have paparazzi in the UK as well think of that example that Harry and Meghan made such an issue our recently.

What was it 6/8 months ago when travelling across New York and said they were quotes and near catastrophic car crash the police have looked into it since and all the rest of it, so we're not the only country with paparazzi photographers looking for pictures of high-profile including members of the royal family.

Thanks for coming to see if I ask you one question which I'm sure some people are wondering not just about you, but about other or journalist which is do you actually know what the reason was for cake to have an operation and you're just not sharing because there's definitely perception in some quarters that the media knows but it isn't saying I don't think anyone knows apart from those in and around the Princess of Wales herself is my job to try and find out of course.

I'm a journalist.

We seek to find out information but all the

That I have will have come for a medical sources and not royal sources because members of the royal family are simply not talking or giving anything away about what's happened to Kate beyond the initial words are used abdominal surgery and anyone who tells you that they know what's wrong with Kate is not telling the truth.

It's all guesswork and everything out there on social media is just conspiracy appreciate you coming in now to finish off the program.

We're going to talk about Formula One because I thought that the Saudi Grand Prix begins today properly the drivers have been talking to the media in Cheddar that's the head of the rest of the week, but of course much of the attention is still on the Red Bull team not just because they have the fastest car but because of these allegations of inappropriate behaviour directed at the teams principal Christian Horner allegation he denies that spring in Andrew Benson BBC Sports chief, Formula One driver and Fern Buckley who's in F1 correspondent for talkSPORT welcome to the both of you and if I could start with you, what did wheel?

ASDA story is played out about the relationship between the sport and the media what it's been quite interesting because the Red Bull have kept everybody at arm's-length rentals company policy is not to talk they do with a presentation for their employees when they join and one of those like a series of slides and the first slide is like the bull talk and then size 2 and 3 sideboard the bull doesn't talk and it goes on like that, so that's a bit of their position.

So it's been quite hard to find out what's going on this be not stupid questions directed at there must have you know the integrity of the investigation that they've been doing you know who's the lawyer who's paying for the lawyer.

What was the scope of the enquiry? How did the board make the decision to depend the report of the Royal made at those questions being answered same with Horner with these messages that have emerged last weekend as you may have heard about them these messages that purport to evolve.

He says he won't comment on anonymous peckford messages.

I said to him or not speculative the messages and you just said I won't common and when I asked if they were genuine he just that I just got shut down so I guess that's it's a difficult thing because they just there's no information coming out.

Obviously there's a woman here is who feels wrong and it's very important to remember and ask questions about what is an abuse of power going on so what certificate Ethan to confirm you're also covering the story is F1 correspondent for talkSPORT I just wondered as you this became your purchase this sport became your patch how easy it was to gain as a journalist commercial dealers between sky between BBC as well, so it comes to talkSPORT there wasn't really are too kind of break through to the team so it's something.

Here's to build relationships of teams contacts and kind of build trust essentially so that they would happily come to a stories and offer our interviews situation like it is very challenging indeed trying to bring the story to life but also to manage expectations relationship.

I was gonna say do you sometimes worry that if you ran a particular particular angle that could damage relationships which would constrain your ability to cover the sport absolutely I mean it's taken quite a long time to go to get these things on stage.

I like Ferrari as well.

So even at this point and to this day.

We don't have that accessibility into them.

So it is a question that goes to my head especially when it's expected.

You don't want to be saying the wrong thing and then totally destroyed those relationships and I do this raises a kind of broad attention does Nando's close in lots of different types of sports journalism which is sometimes and

Patient can be helping to distributes and cover the the sport as a product for the entertainment of fans who want to follow it, but you're also trying to cover it as a story and sometimes those two things can actually be competing against each other yeah, it's quite an awkward dance.

I mean I do have access to these people I travel too many at the races and I've known some of the key figures including Christian Horner for a very very long time, but it doesn't make it any easier because you've got to manage relationships somehow and that awkwardness where they need you and you need them and they have they cannot accept you have a job to do, but they don't really want to say anything about them.

They don't want to be made public but it's your job to say it so you inherit tension is there all the time I just wondered if you're listening is someone who covers the royal family appreciate the comparisons are limited, but at the same time a journalist who is covering any institution or organisation to maintain those contacts sometimes.

I guess that comes into how you cover stories.

There's a route difference I think because I was a political correspondent before I moved into the Royal beat at and the difference there is you've got 650 MPs you got a whole bunch of medicines all of whom have got special advisers to be suppressed and everyone wants to get reelected at the next election a bit different with the royals because one of the things about the royals being hereditary monarchy.

They don't get elected so therefore there are many fewer contact so it is my job too kind of dig deeper is possible to try and find those who really know what's going on and you use the little pieces of information that you can collect from various different areas to build up a picture so like a jigsaw puzzle you're trying to complete the Jigsaw and you've got to try and find as many of the pieces as you can bring it back to Formula 1 fern I just wonder if you watched the allegations around Christian Horner play to watch agree.

You think it's relevant to the vast majority of journalist covering the story of men and the vast majority of people within the sport amen.

This is an ongoing issue.

That has been going on since I started you know there is such a lack of women in motorsport.

So you go back to the 70s girls on the grid in bikinis and waving flags outside of a track or celebrities in a bit, so yeah, it's not lost a me to the fact that this is happening at the moment, but I think we're going into really integral time in a sport where stories like this has been brought to life and made a point up as well.

You got someone like Christian Horner who was known by so many people him.

I made an example of whether or not that's right.

I mean we like we've been saying the team say they've conducted with you and biosphere with external barrister with challenging situations navigate.

I think it was changed Formula 1.

Thank you very much indeed and you've had a school but not going to have a chance to talk about it in detail now, but I mentioned that you revealed allegations that the president of Motorsports governing body the FIA stands accused interference in the outcome of last year's Saudi Grand Prix and those of you listening can find that full story on the BBC Sport website that is it for this edition of the media.

So thank you very much indeed to all of you listening.

Thanks to 2 of 5 gastric cancer investigations editor of deadline.

How do you transfer from politico, Westminster Insider podcast Andrew Benson for and BBC Sport phone Buckley from TalkSport and Chris ship Royal editor ITV news this edition in fact all editions of the program are available on BBC sounds before now.

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