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Help with TV/radio stations?
In this section
Saturday, 28 April 2012
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Mary Middleton9:18 AM
Henley-on-thames
jb38: I use a Bush LT26M1CA LCS tv which has a built in freeview tuner, also a Panasonic DMR-EZ27 recorder/player which also has a built in freeview tuner, connected to the tv by scart. the aerial plugs into the Panasonic, then there's a coax connector from the Panasonic to the tv. the TV input is selected via the TV remote as TV or scart. I've repeatedly re-tuned both freeview tuners for months now but neither the tv or dvd box reception has been reliable. interestingly, upstairs I have an old portable crt tv with built-in VHS tape, I connected a super-cheap Dion freeview tuner from Tesco a few months ago and that set-up works reliably in all weathers, so if I want to be sure of recording something I tend to give up on the expensive, new high-tech stuff downstairs and go back to the old reliable 14" portable! the same aerial serves both tv's. thanks again.
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Mary's: mapM's Freeview map terrainM's terrain plot wavesM's frequency data M's Freeview Detailed Coverage
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jb3811:48 AM
Mary Middleton: Thanks for the update re: equipment used, and on studying same I feel that because you are in an iffy area for reception it would be better if the aerial was not looped through the Panasonic and into the TV as that method is inclined to reduce the signal level to the TV, albeit that this is procedure is OK in good reception area's, therefore I would advise you to use a two way powered splitter to feed both devices, as that not only guarantees that each would get the same level of signal but also with the addition of a mild boost.
That said though, a point that I wondered about regarding the upstairs TV is what aerial does it use? as if the cable in the living room comes from being linked into the socket upstairs then that will have to be altered, insomuch that the two way powered splitter would then be better placed upstairs, and with the aerial from the roof going straight into the splitter, then one of the splitters outputs used to feed the downstairs lounge and the other output for the upstairs TV.
Of course "if" the coax is routed like mentioned, then for a test switch your Freeview recorder onto its signal checking screen and choose a channel that's less than full scale and noting the indication seen, then go upstairs and take the coax plug out of the wall socket and go back downstairs again and see if the signal level has increased any on the Freeview recorder, but remember this is only applicable if the lounge coax comes from the bedroom socket.
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Mary Middleton: Now you are sure that your aerial is facing Oxford, you need to get all the channels tuned in from there, as you have different ones from different transmitters.
The user manual for the Panasonic is here:
Support - Downloads - Panasonic UK & Ireland
(Choose the bottom of the four that says it is 11.8MB)
Page 47 talks about tuning. Basically you have three options:
1. Auto-Setup Restart - This wipes the stored channels and scans for available channels.
2. DVB Manual Tuning - This allows specific channels to be added.
3. Add New DVB Services - This doesn't wipe what channels that are stored, but scans to see if any new ones are available.
If you use number 2, manual tuning, without clearing what you already have, you may find that it achieves nothing. This depends on the design of the receiver. As the Oxford channels may be stored in the 800s, as soon as you manually tune to them it may consider that they are already stored, and therefore do nothing. What you are trying to do is get Oxford in their proper logical channel number positions (1 through to 728).
For this reason you need to wipe what channels are stored using some method. Running the Auto-Setup Restart may accomplish this.
The go to DVB Manual Tuning. For Oxford you need to add the following five channels: C53 (BBC One), C60 (ITV1), C62 (ITV3), C59 (Pick TV), C55 (Yesterday). Note that C62 is expected to change to C50 in October next year.
On the DVB Manual Tuning screen, use the up/down buttons to select a channel number. Then press OK and it will look at that UHF channel and after a short wait it will list all services carried on it. Depending on how it works, you may be able to carry on adding the other channels, or you may have to press EXIT and then go back into DVB Manual Tuning and do the next.
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Helping you with the Bush TV may be a little more tricky as the manual does not appear to be available online.
However, if it has manual tuning, then follow the same general procedure as outlined above. That is, aim to clear what's stored and then add the five channels.
Alternatively, whilst performing its automatic tuning scan it gives a percentage progress, then start it off with the aerial unplugged and then plug in when it gets to 57%. If there is manual tuning and you are missing any channels, then use it to add them (using channel numbers given above).
The objective of unplugging the aerial is to have the aerial disconnected whilst it is scanning frequencies used by Crystal Palace and Hannington, thereby irradicating the possibility that it will store them instead of the Oxford ones.
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jb38: With apparent clear line of sight as Mary has, surely the likely prediction would be 100s right across the board (or near 100s), except where signals from distance station(s) may interfere. Therefore is it not likely to be the case that the lower scores are as a result of other transmitters?
It would surely be useful if the Digital UK Tradeview predictor would indicate which station(s) it thinks may degrade reception as the level to which they will do in practice surely depends on factors such as the design of the aerial and its location such as if there is an obstruction to help block the unwanted signal.
Also, the fact that Mary has a high gain aerial surely reduces her chance of interference, particularly where it originates from outside the main acceptance angle. Or is the true in a way, except for where there is a reflection of the unwanted signal that is in the direction to which the aerial faces.
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Briantist: There are some pages which appear to have the comments turned off, yet there is a box to make a comment.
I've just posted on this page but the comment is not showing:
Compare Freeview and Freesat TV | ukfree.tv - independent free digital TV advice
The comment I made was the fact that "ITV3 (CI)" is showing as being available on Freesat but not full Freeview. I gather this has something to do with ITV3 being available on PSB2 on the Channel Islands.
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Mary Middleton12:46 PM
Henley-on-thames
jb38 & Dave Lindsay: what can I say? I am blitzed with useful information and totally gobsmacked by your technical authority!
the aerial splitter is outside the house, the aerial is mounted on a 10ft mast on the chimney stack, the cable runs down the front of the roof into a box on the wall, from this 2 cables emerge, one goes down and in through the sitting room wall, the other goes across the front in in through the bedroom wall
the invoice says it's a DMX52WB Digital Aerial connected with low loss digital coax cable and 1402 transformer splitter
the connection to the Panasonic DVD/telly with the coax loop was done by the installers, who took a lot of trouble to tune it for me and did get rid of a lot of extra channels, but of course the numerous re-tunes required by the digital switchover have lost all that
thanks for the guidance on manual tuning, I have the Bush tv manual and will look through that for the equivalent procedures
one simple-minded female question: why did I never have any problems before all this digital stuff started? I never wanted 130 channels of rubbish tv!
ok, another one, if the tv/dvd recorders are self-tuning, shouldn't they automatically find & set the best signal out there?
and another one, why does the Digital UK advice service always blame the equipment and 'moisture entering the aerial cable'? nobody there even mentioned tuning options so I am grateful to all you experts out there for the ideas
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Mary's: mapM's Freeview map terrainM's terrain plot wavesM's frequency data M's Freeview Detailed Coverage
Mary Middleton: Prior to switchover, the digital signals were on lower power and hence weaker and there was therefore less places where they overlapped. It also meant that some areas weren't served, which is why the power of the signals had to go up. The problem of overlap and receivers picking up neighbouring transmitters was also present in the days of analogue.
It is more a case of how well a receiver deals with such a situation when it performs its automatic tuning procedure, which goes on to answer your next question. Some leave a lot to be desired and may have worked fine in the lab when presented with signals from one transmitter, but that's often not what it's like in the real world. The simplest scan the frequencies and use the first ones they find, putting any subsequent duplicates in the 800s. This is fine only in those locations where the desired transmitter is the first to be found (lowest frequencies out of all those present). Others go on strength and others seemingly have little logic attached to their decision process of which channels may be the "desired" ones.
Based on what you've said, your receiver does not even check to ensure that it is picking up all services from the same transmitter, even if it may not be the "right" one.
More recent sets are better and ask the user which "Region" they wish to use where multiple ones have been picked up. They are essentially asking "which set of channels from which transmitter do you want to use?" The transmitter is not identified by name, but by the principal area it serves. This should hopefully mean that all the main channels that it has stored are those of your chosen transmitter and the "others" will be put in the 800s.
Because of all of the above, I don't trust automatic tuning to pick up the right set of channels and always check that they are indeed coming from the desired transmitter (by checking the signal strength screen). When you repeatedly retuned, what was probably happening is that the procedure was picking the same signals to go with which, as it turns out, are wrong. So you (well your receiver was!) were probably achieving the same wrong result.
With any technical fault finding, there can be different causes for the fault. Moisture in the cable is one possibility, although due to the likelihood of the above, I would tend to check that everything is tuned correctly first.
Once you have it tuned correctly, then make a note of what you did. You may wish to print this out for future use if you have a printer.
If you continue to have issues with reception, then they will not be down to receiving signals that the aerial was not installed for. Therefore, the tuning is correct and should not be adjusted.
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J
jb385:25 PM
Dave Lindsay: The terrain indications seen on sites such as Magalithia and also I notice having recently been added to this site, may well be OK for reference purposes to give an idea of whether or not any major obstructions exist between two given points such as a hill of any great magnitude is concerned, but its folly to take the indications seen as the gospel as they only show obstructions of a fixed nature where it involves a hill and "not" even anything man made, or even worse that of one of the biggest causes of poor and erratic reception in the UK, namely forests or other types of situations where dense patches of trees are in existence, and as far as Mary's location is concerned you don't require to look far in any direction to come across some, as I have done on test views at points between Nuffield and each of the stations.
I consider that all info gathered from these indicators / or predictors whether it be for terrain purposes or DUK's reception predictor has to be treated with caution, although in the case of DUK's trade view predictor if it indicates poor reception in a particular area and this is coupled to a number of reception complaints from that area, then it can be reasonably safely assumed that the forecast is correct, but though when a terrain check is carried out in the same area and one observes a clear line-of-site being indicated, then in this case it has to be assumed that the reception problem is caused by vegetative reasons, which means that terrain forecasts are not reliable if used for reception purposes.
By the way, I have the service manual for that Bush and which also shows its menu facilities before that actual service info, and to say its limited in tuning flexibility is being nice about it, as I couldn't see any manual tuning being offered (only on analogue) and no reset options on the set either, not the best of models for an area where a particular station is required to be singled out.
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Sunday, 29 April 2012
R
Richard9:58 AM
Hi All,
Does anyone know if there are any plans to improve DAB and DVB coverage, particularly in the Skipton transmitter area?
The list of DVB channels available in Barnoldswick is significantly smaller than I am used to.
Also Barnoldswick is in a DAB dead spot. I spent a lot of cash on DAB kit in all the hype and it's now useless! Does anyone know if this is likely to be improved in the near future?
Aside from these comments, does anyone agree with the following observations...
1. DAB is a pain because they didn't take the trouble to synchronise it with analogue audio. This means that you can't put radios on in 2 or three rooms so you can keep listening as you move around the house - unless you buy all your DABs in one hit! What a pain.
2. DVB is generally much clearer than analogue but...on very dark screens or very gradually changing colour fields you get square edged pixel fields which detract from the picture. Moving water is also horrible - water doesn't form square edges often! In this respect digital interrupts and spoils my viewing where analoge never did. I don't want to be a dinosaur but since my viewing is now disturbed by the transmission method and wasn't before, DVB is worse!
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Mary Middleton10:55 AM
Henley-on-thames
jb38 & Dave Lindsay: I had thought for some time that the reception was equipment related because the upstairs setup works fine with the cheap Tesco tuner, and what you've said confirms that
jb38: you're right about the Bush tuning, I got the manual out and couldn't figure out how to find out what channels it's tuning to, I guess it's just a very primitive tuner
since I always watch the Bush telly via the Panasonic box unless I'm recording something on that, it's a minor problem
but is this a silly question: since the Tesco tuner upstairs seems to work so well, could I attach another one of those to the Bush and tune it through that? the thing only costs about a tenner
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Mary's: mapM's Freeview map terrainM's terrain plot wavesM's frequency data M's Freeview Detailed Coverage
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