TVs and boxes that do not support the 8k-mode
Brian Butterworth published on UK Free TV If you use one of these to watch Freeview, or are hoping to after switchover happens in your region, you will need to get a new Freeview box at switchover.
ONdigital/ITVdigital branded set top boxes
Nokia Mediamaster 9850T; Pace DTR730 and DTR735, Philips DTX6370, DTX6371 and DTX6372; Pioneer DBRT200 and DBRT210, Sony VTX-D500; Toshiba DTB2000.If you have any of these you will need to recycle it and get a new box.
Freeview branded set top boxes
Fusion FRT100*, Pace DTVA-T "Wedge Adaptor", DT210F*, Samsung SIRU200i (Without M suffix).Freeview, ONdigital and ITV branded integrated digital television sets
Alba ONdigital sets, Bush ONdigital sets.Hitachi 28WDDODTN, 32WD40DTN and D36W840DTN; Panasonic TX-28DT2, TX-32DT2, TX-28DT30*, TX-32DT30*, TX-36DT30*, TX-36DT35* and TX-32DH40*; Philips 28DW6734, 32DW6834, 32DW9625, 28DW6557* and 32DW6557*.
Sanyo CE28DFN1-B, CE32DFN1-B, CE28DFN2-B, CE32DFN2-B, CE32DFN2BK-B, CE28DWN1-B, CE28DFN3-B-00, CE32DFN3-B-00, CE30LD3-B,CE30LD3BK-B, CE27LD3-B, CE23LD4-B, CE23LD4W-B, CE27LD4-B, CE27LD4BK-B, CE32LD4-B, CE32LD4BK-B, CE27LD5-B and CE32LD5-B.
Sony 28DS60, 32DS60, 28DS65, 32DS65, 28DX20, 32DX20, 28DX30, 32DX30, 28DS20, 32DS20, KP41DS1, KP51DS1, KP51DS2, KP41DS1, KP51DS1, KP51DS2, KD28DX40*, KD32DX40*, KD32DX100*, KD32NX100*, KD32NX200*, KD36NX200*; Toshiba 28WT98B, 32WT98B, 28ZT29B, 32ZT29B, 36ZT29B, 42WT29B, 50WT29B and 57WT29B.
All these sets can be upgraded - contact the supplier (numbers below) to add a Freeview box to the set.
Boxes that do not support both 2k and 8k modes
Some boxes are having problems during switchover supporting both modes at the same times:- Sharp TU-R160H
- Humax 9200T
- Thomson DTi 1000
The workaround appears to be to add the "8k" channel manually (C62 for Selkirk, for example) and then to do this procedure after switchover is complete: My Freeview box has no EPG, is missing Film4, Channel 4+1, no sound on ITV3 or the channel line up is wrong - ukfree.tv - independent digital television and switchover advice, since 2002
This is on top of the boxes that could not cope with the changes to the Network Information Table (NIT): Daewoo DS608P, Labgear DTT100, Triax DVB 2000T, Portland DP100 and these VCR/STBs: Daewoo SV900, Bush IDVCR01
Helpline numbers
- Alba 0871 230 1777
- Bush 0871 230 1777
- Daewoo 0870 100 2525
- Hitachi 0870 405 4405
- Humax 0870 247 8800
- Nokia 0845 045 5555
- Pace 0870 120 1910
- Panasonic 0800 169 3012
- Philips 0870 900 9070
- Pioneer 0330 123 1240
- Sharp 08705 274 277
- Sony 08705 111999
- Thomson 01443 220220
- Toshiba 0115 976 6958
Help with Freeview, aerials?
In this section
Monday, 7 January 2013
Keith: I'm not sure that it is necessarily the tuner being insensitive; it could be the other way around, it being sensitive to a ropey signal (probably caused by reflections) that the others are OK with. This is purely my unqualified thought - the way in which digital signal works means that reflections are OK but I wonder to what degree. Indeed, there are a few signal frequency networks in operation now.
You can get variable attenuators or perhaps used in conjunction with a 6dB one (or greater).
The aerial you have referred to looks to be the thing. The photo is that of an Antiference LP20FHV:
Log Periodic UHF Aerials | Antiference
The one from ATV is a Blake and its elements are flat, rather than round. I'm not sure if that makes them more rugged, and perhaps, more able to withstand big birds.
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J
jb3811:30 PM
Keith: With regards to your recording problem, these Bush PVRs are manufactured by a company called Vestel, and although they far in a way outshine devices such as a Humax for their sheer level of user friendliness they are however not near so stable in performance as the latter mentioned by these boxes being extremely critical to signal strength levels, this applying to operation at both ends of the scale, and your report of the picture breaking up when you press record is something that can even be experienced in SD versions of these models when fed by a signal level that's bordering on being excessive.
It should be pointed out that in any area where high signal strength levels are experienced HD reception will always be first to be effected well before SD, and this applies no matter what brand of device is being used, but you have an added problem insomuch that your HD channel 28 uses a negative offset on its frequency as does COM6, (Film 4 / ITV4 etc) and although in more recent times Vestel have greatly improved their circuitry to get over this problem I have noticed on a few Vestel models that an element of instability (albeit slight) still exists when these devices are used on a transmitter station with a negative offset on one of its mux channels, and this is over and above their susceptibility to slightly excessive signal levels, although this certainly does not help matters.
Of course being so close to a transmitter where the main beams from the mast are up to a point passing over your head nearly always causes problems with reception, as the signal is generally not arriving at the aerial from a definite direction but multiple angles albeit that one angle may well favour another, and with the best position for reception not always being the one that points directly at the mast as an element of experimenting is always the order of the day in cases such as yours, sometimes satisfactory reception can even be achieved with a short length of good quality coax being connected into the aerial socket of the TV or box and with a loop of wire of about 6" in diameter connected across the braiding and middle core of the coax at the other end, the loop being placed on a window ledge in view of the mast.
Still, these are just a couple of things that I thought that you should be aware of over and above the advice given by Dave Lindsay.
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Tuesday, 8 January 2013
K
Keith12:41 PM
Thx JB38 & Dave for ur advice - much appreciated.
Yes, the unit is a Vestel T7650 - usability is great and I would love to keep it - if only I could get it working properly !!
In my efforts to do so, I have tried to find a firmware upgrade (to v1.49) in the hope that might fixit.
Unfortunately it's not available anywhere to download so will have to wait until the next OAD.
Checking the units onboard signal strength/quality, I notice that all is well apart from channel #30 which I have now discovered contains all the HD channels from CP.
Signal quality fluctuates between Poor & None...
This must be the hurdle I have to overcome - I've now tried everything from different aerials/positions/attenuators (feels like I've gone back to the old analogue days), but nothing improves signal quality.
btw, I'm in an elevated position and can actually see the CP tower from upstairs rear window.
Have ordered an outdoor aerial and new coax cable, so if that doesn't work I'll give up and send it back...
(mebbe get a TVOnics instead)
Thx again for all ur help & suggestions.
Keith
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J
jb386:39 PM
Keith: On reading your posting I just realised that I had mistakenly typed in Ch28 instead of Ch30 when referring to your HD reception, and which I apologise for and hope that it did not cause too much confusion, Ch28 obviously being COM6 the other offset frequency channel that I had referred to and which I noticed you report as being OK.
Yes, you should keep your eye on the Vestel website (albeit an Unofficial one) for any possible software updates for your box, although I see that one (the first) was made on Nov 1st 2012 connected to recording facilities, but with regards to any possible replacement have you not considered the Humax? as these are technically superior to any other box as far as their tuner circuitry is concerned and nothing touches them as far as stability is concerned, although I do fully realise that they are in the higher price bracket for Freeview PVR's.
But though even with their technical superiority I will agree that nothing really beats Vestel menu systems for sheer ease of use and the rapid response times for any commands made on the remote control, one of the boxes I have installed being a Vestel and the one favoured for use by my wife over any of the two Humax PVR's I also use, these tuned to two different stations as my reception suffers from seasonal changes, a third Humax being used for Freesat.
Anyway, I would be most interested in reading an update from you once you have tried out the new aerial, but should by any chance this prove unsatisfactory then you should try the loop aerial I suggested before giving up as the loop type limits the amount of RF that's picked up provided that the coax is good quality (thick) as far as its braiding is concerned.
Just in case the site I referred to isn't the one you are meaning this is a link to it, although the DRG's download site is really the one that gives dates / times for OA downloads for TV's and boxes.
Unofficial Vestel PVR Information (UK) - T7650 Freeview+ HD
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K
Keith8:13 PM
jb38: yep, that is the website I searched - and Futaura has also made favourable comments on this box in other forums which led me to buying it in the first place :)
The box was only £119 (new but in tatty box), so markedly cheaper than the Humax which I was also considering.
The TVOnics is £114 new but my better half hates the look of them...
I will certainly keep this post updated with results of new aerial/cable and will also try the loop method as a final shot if necessary.
Many thx again,
Keith
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Wednesday, 9 January 2013
J
jb3812:03 AM
Keith: Well yes, I can quite believe that this box has been given favourable reports and indeed is possibly superior to many of Vestels earlier types, but though the problem with these type of reports is that they invariably have been made as the result of the box being assessed when used under standard reception conditions and not one where excessive signal levels were liable to have been experienced, because its only when a TV or box is operating under these conditions that any deficiencies that might exist in the RF circuitry side of the device will show up, and problems caused though RF instability can have a wide range of symptoms, but though in my opinion one of them being your recording problem, as I have observed this exact same fault occur on previous non HD models (using different chassis) when used under circumstances such as described.
I personally would dearly love a chance to carry out some more detailed tests (with instruments) on the circuitry associated with the recording side on these boxes when it was being used under "real life" excessively high signal level conditions, (it being a very difficult to simulate type of situation even when using more sophisticated test gear) and although unaware if you are technically inclined, but I do have a suspicion (or educated guess!) that when the recording side of the circuit is activated an element of RF instability is being introduced into the PCB's common earth rail and this is causing a slight potential difference to occur from one end of the common rail to the other, and because other sensitive parts of the circuitry (inc tuner) also uses this rail its possibly this that is causing the problem. (thicker earth tracks possibly being required)
Of course it would be interesting to know the result if the box was tested out in a more distant location, as I strongly suspect that the problem might not show up.
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K
Keith10:43 PM
Bush B1TBHDPVR (Vestel T7650) Update.
Well, the aerial & cable arrived today, so I've been having more fun trying to get this Bush PVR to work properly...
For the first time I've seen HD Signal Quality reported as 'Very Good', but only after the PVR is switched on...
Frustratingly if I check a different (SD) channel and then go back to #30 it will report as 'Poor' again !!
I also found/tried a loop aerial (from an old portable TV) and that (surprisingly) seems the most reliable.
(thx for the tip jb38)
It works best mounted 4' from the ground in the back garden.
Sadly it's still hit & miss - picture breakup can occur when I stop recording !!??
I have now tried 5 different aerials in different locations with/without attenuator/s 6DB & 12DB.
Every possible combination ends in failure - either stuttering or 'Signal not strong enough to record'.
(also tried restarting / rescanning and siting PVR away from other equipment)
Signal strength has never been an issue - new aerial will go to max without attenuation, but signal quality continues to remain elusive.
So I think it's time to give up, there must be summat wrong with the unit :(
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Thursday, 10 January 2013
J
jb3812:48 AM
Keith: Many thanks for your latest up date and with the content of being most interesting, especially the fact of the loop having up to a point given reasonable results, and although a bit late in mentioning it now, but when I first mentioned about trying a loop I should also have added to try some tests with the loop being made in different diameters and possibly by starting slightly less than what it presently is. I do realise that this type of aerial is in no way matched to the frequencies used by the transmitters but that is something that isn't wanted anyway, as the idea is just to sniff an element of the signal and not receive it at any great level, which of course would happen if it was matched.
But though I really do feel that the Vestel chassis is the source of the problem as the basic fact remains, being that in areas where iffy reception is not being caused by low signal strength but quite the reverse, then this type of situation demands a highly stable receiver being used, this requirement being unfortunately where Vestel chassis devices do not really come into the equation.
But as a final on this, you should try a loop of about 4 inches in diameter noting the results, then try another about 8 inches or so in diameter, once again noting the results and giving an update on what you had found.
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Friday, 11 January 2013
K
Keith7:33 PM
Well I took the Bush back to the shop and it was replaced with a new one.
To my initial dismay it still showed Signal Quality as 'Poor' when cycling back to channel #30.
Thought I may as well try recording HD and all seemed to go smoothly (for the first time ever).
Impressed with this (and not trusting the builtin signal meter), I tried recording with the portable 4" rod aerial.
To my surprise that also went smoothly on all HD channels, tho if I moved around the room it affected the pic slightly.
I have now wired the loop aerial under the roof eaves outside and pleased to report that the unit is behaving faultlessly without attenuation (Signal Strength reported at max, but seems to have no detrimental effect).
I also noticed that iPlayer now works (it didn't before) and the 'Lib' button actually brings up the Library (it didn't before - I had to go thru Menu).
The PIP button still doesn't do anything, but I think that's there for a possible future OAD update.
(it is still on the old firmware - same as the other one)
So it transpires I did have a faulty unit as suspected and tho I wasted money on a new aerial, I'm just happy that the PVR is now working as it should.
I just hope it continues to do so.
Many thx to Dave & jb38 for ur help and advice :)
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Saturday, 12 January 2013
J
jb389:02 AM
Keith: Thanks for the update and pleased to hear that the replacement box plus the eaves mounted loop aerial seems to have cured your problem, although I do have to say that its not necessarily always the case that your old box had a definite fault as such (in general terms anyway) but was just less stable than your replacement, the reason for this being the possibly of it having had minor alterations (addition of one or two components) made to its PCB circuitry to improve performance, the problem with manufacturing changes like that being that they are not always documented very well in the service data of well known brands such as Sony / Panasonic etc let alone Vestel who can have three different PCB variations under the same model number (T835 chassis) albeit admittedly that this is known about by service depots but not necessarily the purchaser.
Of course this is neither here nor there, as the main thing is that you will not now have to sacrifice the convenience of using a Vestel's excellent menu system for the sake of purchasing a more stable device but with a somewhat less user friendly system, which regrettably to say, as used by Humax devices.
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