menuMENU    UK Free TV logo Freeview

 

 

Click to see updates

Saorview on the Clermont Carn transmitter

first published this on - UK Free TV
sa_gmapsGoogle mapsa_bingBing mapsa_gearthGoogle Earthsa_gps54.079,-6.323 or 54°4'45"N 6°19'23"W

 

The symbol shows the location of the Clermont Carn transmitter. The bright green areas shown where the signal from this transmitter is strong, dark green areas are poorer signals. Those parts shown in yellow may have interference on the same frequency from other masts.

This transmitter has no current reported problems

The BBC and Digital UK report there are no faults or engineering work on the Clermont Carn transmitter.

Choose from three options: ■ List by multiplex ■ List by channel number ■ List by channel name
_______

Which Saorview channels does the Clermont Carn transmitter broadcast?

If you have any kind of Saorview fault, follow this Saorview reset procedure first.

Digital television services are broadcast on a multiplexes (or Mux) where many stations occupy a single broadcast frequency, as shown below.

MuxH/VFrequencyHeightModeWatts
SV1
 V max
C52 (722.0MHz)626mDTG-1003160,000W
Channel icons


SV2
 V max
C56 (754.0MHz)626mDTG-1003160,000W
Channel icons


DTG-1003 64QAM 8K 2/3 24.1Mb/s DVB-T MPEG4
H/V: aerial position (horizontal or vertical)

How will the Clermont Carn transmission frequencies change over time?

1984-971997-981998-20122012-132013-182013-17-
A B C/D E K T VHFA B C/D E K T VHFA B C/D E K T VHFC/D E TC/D E TC/D E TC/D E T
C52tv_offSV1SV1SV1SV1
C56tv_offSV2SV2SV2SV2

tv_off Being removed from Freeview (for 5G use) after November 2020 - more
Table shows multiplexes names see this article;
green background for transmission frequencies
Notes: + and - denote 166kHz offset; aerial group are shown as A B C/D E K W T
waves denotes analogue; digital switchover was 1 Jan 12 and 1 Jan 12.

How do the old analogue and currrent digital signal levels compare?

SV1||, SV2|| 160kW

Comments
Friday, 25 October 2019
D
Denis
5:33 PM
Downpatrick

Your assumptions are wrong. I not doing the distribution and am not providing the distribution system, officially or otherwise. I am not in the aerial business at all. I am a resident, and the point of my recent posts is simply to find an easy way of combining two aerials.

As I said, the distribution system is already in place. It has been for the past 12 years and the original installer is not known, so I can't ask him.

The switch idea is technically feasable, but as Chris says, is impractical. It would involve opening up concealed trunkings and running extra cable through cable trays and conduits - some of which are already full, and fitting coaxial switches in each resident's flat. Neither the owners nor Flat Management will sanction the cost of this. My (unpaid) task is to propose a cost-effective solution to present to management.

To try and make my question more straightforward:
The existing aerial is a single 8-element log periodic direct to a Multiswitch (distribution amplifier) where it is diplexed with four satellite LNG inputs onto a single cable to each flat. The aerial is not, as I previously thought, an active one, and does not have a masthead amp. The signals for the weaker muxes (5kW and 12kW) are ok on the top floor but not on the ground floor.

Does anyone on forum have practical experience of using two aerials to receive signals from different directions on nearby mux channels? One aerial is to receive mux channels 52 & 56, the other 51 & 60. Diplexers to discriminate between such close frequency bands are not, as far as I know, available, so a wide band combiner seems the only solution - a splitter used 'backwards' would probably do. I'd expect a loss of -6dB or more, but a masthead amp should deal with that. A potential problem is that the Saorview transmitter is only about 10 degrees off the Newcastle fill-in transmitter, so the tuners will be receiving some of the same channels from Newcastle and Divis.
It doesn't help that suppliers ofter seem to confuse "combiners" with "diplexers" (semantics I suppose).

I have been told that somehow a Freeview HD tuner EPG will discriminate between the Freeview and Saorview channels by labelling the latter in the 800+ range (I guess the software recognises the TX IDs). But how will it discriminate between duplicated Freeview channel numbers? I daresay you could delete the duplicate channels - though they would reappear on re-tuning.

I guess the only way I'll find out is to suck it and see.

link to this comment
Denis's 20 posts GB
C
Chris.SE
sentiment_satisfiedGold

11:48 PM

Denis:

Well my assumption was based on the "I presently have ........" rather than perhaps "we have ........" not that I don't suppose it changes any technical input so far.

Just for clarification, you mention mux channels 51 & 60 - that I take it is from Divis, COMs 7 & 8. I'll have to read your previous posts again, I don't recall you having any issues on the ground floor with the other Divis muxes and that I assume is where the aerial is currently pointing.
I wouldn't be considering any "combiners/diplexers" that are channelised because (I assume you'd noticed when looking at the DigitalUKChecker) the temporary COMs 7&8 muxes are due to move in Q1 2020 to UHF 55 & 56 but also their power is going to reduce from 12.4/12.66kW to 8.913kW each. I don't know about SV1 & SV2 but I'd guess they've got to be moving from 52 & 56 sometime next year, possibly Q1 when COM8 moves??

As an aside, in case you hadn't spotted, if you hover over a channel number in the predicted reception area of the DigitalUK Checker, it gives the transmission mode and the power. At Divis as you know the PSBs are 100kW, COMs4-6 are 50kW.

How many UHF inputs does that Multiswitch have?

link to this comment
Chris.SE's 1,451 posts GB
Saturday, 26 October 2019
C
CARL READE
sentiment_satisfiedBronze

7:49 PM

Denis: all you require is an inductive splitter/combiner to replace the diplexer and both aerials to be wideband as this transmitter is now also broadcasting on Chanel 42 and 45 which they have failed to mention on this site. Ch52 and 56 appear to be on lower power. So all in all your widebanding the system which then future proofs it for March 2020.

Carl

link to this comment
CARL READE's 50 posts GB
Monday, 28 October 2019
C
Chris.SE
sentiment_satisfiedGold

6:30 PM

CARL READE: (& Denis:)

Now that you mention it, I do recall posting that the Saorview channels had (should have) moved to 42 & 45 on October 1st on the Divis page. I also provided a couple of links which could be of some use -
http://coverage.2rn.ie/in….php
Saorview

I was also thinking that an Inductive Splitter/Combiner would be better than a conventional one as you wouldn't get the same larger insertion loss, but only needed if the Multiswitch doesn't have more than one UHF input (one I think is normally the case). However some extra amplification is certainly needed if the reception on the ground floor is already problematic.

link to this comment
Chris.SE's 1,451 posts GB
Tuesday, 29 October 2019
D
Denis
11:25 AM
Downpatrick

Chris and Carl,
thanks. I did reply earlier but my message doesn't seem to have gone through.

The multiplex has only one terrestial input.

The higher power muxes (100kW and 50kW) are received OK on the ground floor.

Yes Saorview coverage from Claremont Carn is within the coverage area (spilling through a gap in the Mourne Mountains, and is line-of-sight according to a profile chart. It is listed as having 160KW output.
I have emailed Saorview to ask what the power is/will be on Mux 52/56 and 42/45. The Divis RTE (Saorview) definitely rebroadcasts on Mux 33 only, with only 3 RTE TV channels, and restrictive programming due to Broadcasting Rights.

OK about the splitter/combiner. Yes it needs to be wideband. I thought inductive splitters are the norm - most suppliers don't mention whether or not they are inductive. I imagine an inductive splitter would cost little more to manufacture than a resistive one. Even an inductive one will give a loss, so I will need a masthead amp (fitted inside, between the combiner and Multiswitch).
Strangely, Screwfix Q&A on splitters have an answer from Labgear that their spiltters cannot be used as a combiner.

link to this comment
Denis's 20 posts GB
D
Denis
11:42 AM
Downpatrick

Just been on the Saorview chat line. As Carl said, Claremont Carn is presently transmitting on both 52/56 and 42/45, but 52/56 is on reduced power in order to "encourage" viewers to re-tune before the 52/56 closes in Q1 next year.

link to this comment
Denis's 20 posts GB
Sunday, 19 January 2020
K
Kevin McCarthy
10:28 AM

I have been receiving Saorview from Clarmont Carn on 52/56 with 50% strength and 100% quality on both channels.

Last night I changed to 42/45 and found that the reception dropped considerably -c42 strength 20% and quality 40%, c45 strength 25% and quality 45% which resulted in an unwatchable picture.

Is there any reason for this drop in quality.

Should 42/45 not be positioned the same as 52/56 or will I have to adjust my aerial.

I should say I also receive Freeview from Divis transmitter.

Any help would be appreciated

link to this comment
Kevin McCarthy's 3 posts GB
C
Chris.SE
sentiment_satisfiedGold

2:33 PM

Kevin McCarthy:

It could be the Tropospheric Ducting/Temperature Inversion that is predicted to get worse with the current High Pressure weather system.
If you attempt any retuning during this, you may well pick up other transmitters, and lose your correct tuning and have to retune again as conditions change. But then if you aren't receiving anything at the time, there's probably nothing to lose as long as you appreciate you may have to retune a few times until these conditions go away.

link to this comment
Chris.SE's 1,451 posts GB
Monday, 20 January 2020
K
Kevin McCarthy
12:49 PM

Chris

Many thanks for your reply. I will keep an eye on C42 over the next few days.

As a matter of interest, if c42,c45,c52,c56 are all coming from the same transmitter should they not have the same strength / quality

link to this comment
Kevin McCarthy's 3 posts GB
C
Chris.SE
sentiment_satisfiedGold

11:12 PM

Kevin McCarthy:

Hi there, well there's a couple of possibilities here. Let's first mention that the "tropo" (for short) will not always affect all frequencies the same at the same instant. So, lower frequencies could be affected more or less than higher ones.
But note the post from Denis back in October where he said that Saorview had told him that 52/56 were on lower power whilst simulcasting with the new channels 42/45, the latter I assume are at the stated 160kW.

So I'd be surprised if the effect is entirely the "tropo". The other possibility is that if you have an old grouped aerial (C/D) then it's performance on 42/45 may sufficiently poor to give the results you are seeing. A Group K aerial would be best for this Saorview transmitter. If you are not in a good reception area for this transmitter to start with, then that drop-off may be sufficient to give the results you've see.

As we don't necessarily know how much effect the weather or your aerial is having, as you say keep an eye on it.
You may get some more information by putting your postcode into Saorview but I'm doubting that you will, the site looks more "show" than "substance" to me. But do post back with any more info if you have any.

link to this comment
Chris.SE's 1,451 posts GB
Select more comments

Your comment please
Please post a question, answer or commentIf you have Freeview reception problems before posting a question your must first do this Freeview reset procedure then see: Freeview reception has changed, Single frequency interference, and Freeview intermittent interference.

If you have no satellite signal, see Sky Digibox says 'No Signal' or 'Technical fault'

If you have other problems, please provide a full (not partial) postcode (or preferably enter it in box at the top right) and indicate where if aerial is on the roof, in the loft or elsewhere.

UK Free TV is here to help people. If you are rude or disrespectful all of your posts will be deleted and you will be banned.








Privacy policy: UK Free Privacy policy.